Carmichael to Triumph

[Drop-Bear]

 

[SantaCruzin]

Sign me up! I've ridden Honda most of my life with brief forays into KTM and Beta territory and I'd welcome another viable option. On-road I've had a number of bikes including two Triumphs, which were both great bikes all-around. As we're seeing with the influx of Beta, SWM, Sherco, etc. the market can support new entries, and it will do nothing but good things for the consumer.

Building out the dealer networks, parts networks, etc. is often the biggest hurdle for emerging brands. Triumph has that covered.

Edited July 20, 2021 by SantaCruzin

[JJ10]

This is great news for the crowd that worries the sport is dying or that we need to get ready to ride e-bikes instead of a real motorcycle.  Stuff like this wouldn't happen if a time tested brand like Triumph wasn't optimistic about a growing market.
New competition in the market forces everyone to get better.  The more we have to choose from, the harder all of the manufacturers will have to work to keep their share of the market.  The buyer wins no matter who makes it to top spot amidst the competition.

[KTMRider4Life]

@Chaconne deserves a big ol piece of crow on this one.  He says the market is dying not thriving.  

[Drop-Bear]

16 minutes ago, JJ10 said:

This is great news for the crowd that worries the sport is dying or that we need to get ready to ride e-bikes instead of a real motorcycle.  Stuff like this wouldn't happen if a time tested brand like Triumph wasn't optimistic about a growing market.
New competition in the market forces everyone to get better.  The more we have to choose from, the harder all of the manufacturers will have to work to keep their share of the market.  The buyer wins no matter who makes it to top spot amidst the competition.

Looking at their profits, just confirms the industry is in trouble IMO. I think they're mad, but, always happy to have another option. I hope it works out for them, but, won't be holding my breath.
A black KTM would be a better way for them to go .

 

[Drop-Bear]

6 minutes ago, KTMRider4Life said:

@Chaconne deserves a big ol piece of crow on this one.  He says the market is dying not thriving.  

Do you know how many more street bikes they sell compared to off rd bikes? They can't even seem to make money on their street bikes 

The sport is dying here. I've been involved for 46 yrs. I've been watching it slowly die since the late 80's. We peaked in the 70's. Been down hill ever since.

No kids = no future, and kids have way too many other choices, mum would prefer they do, before riding dirt bikes. I've been looking for a really keen young bloke to coach and sponsor, for yrs. They just have to be really keen. I don't care even if they've never ridden a bike. They don't exist.
I'm only looking for excited enthusiasm. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Drop-Bear

[JJ10]

2 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

Looking at their profits, just confirms the industry is in trouble IMO. I think they're mad, but, always happy to have another option. I hope it works out for them, but, won't be holding my breath.
A black KTM would be a better way for them to go .

 

How does a guy take such good news and turn it into a negative?  With that kind of thinking, all motorcycles would be KTMs, and all restaurants would be Taco Bell.

[Drop-Bear]

11 minutes ago, JJ10 said:

How does a guy take such good news and turn it into a negative?  With that kind of thinking, all motorcycles would be KTMs, and all restaurants would be Taco Bell.

"What kind of guy takes such good news and turns .......".  Ya mean?

A realistic one.

Our sport is under attack, has been for yrs. Hate to tell you. But, they're slowly winning. We're slowly losing.

If they had half a brain, they'd put their money into making a more off rd competent ADV bike. Yamaha got close to the Unicorn, look at the sales. imagine when they get it right.

Our future is in ADV. 

You don't want to admit to what you're observing with your own eyes. The positive is, we're old, the sport should be still around when we die.

My old man never could have imagined the end of shooting and hunting in this country. But, It's been wiped out now. It was a lot more popular than dirt bikes.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Drop-Bear

[mog]

8 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

What kind of guy?

A realistic one.

Our sport is under attack, has been for yrs. Hate to tell you. But, they're slowly winning. We're slowly losing.

If they had half a brain, they'd put their money into making a more off rd competent ADV bike. Yamaha got close to the Unicorn, look at the sales. imagine when they get it right.

Our future is in ADV. 

You don't want to admit to what you're observing with your own eyes. The positive is, we're old, the sport should be still around when we die.

My old man never could have imagined the end of shooting and hunting in this country. But, It's been wiped out now. It was a lot more popular than dirt bikes.

Your wrong ,sales are up and have been since about 09 

The profit of triumph doesn't prove the Denise of a whole industry , that's just not how it works 

 

[Drop-Bear]

12 minutes ago, mog said:

Your wrong ,sales are up and have been since about 09 

The profit of triumph doesn't prove the Denise of a whole industry , that's just not how it works 

 

Business's losing profit on what made them profit in the first place, pouring money into and trying to make money in a segment of the market, they know bugger all about, isn't likely to end well.

Sales are up, so is the population . Numbers are very easily manipulated. You've been seeing clear evidence of that for long enough now.

Anyone with basic observations skills can see we're in trouble.

Suzuki's lack of interest is more writing on the walls. Not enough profit in it. They make way better money in other sectors of the market. People just think Suzuki are broke, when the truth is the complete opposite. They kill it, they stick with what sells, and makes them profit. They don't lose money flogging a dead horse.
Clearly, they're still making money on street bikes.

Don't shoot the messenger. Good chance I have more passion for this sport than you do.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Drop-Bear

[mog]

7 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

Business's losing profit on what made them profit in the first place, pouring money into and trying to make money in a segment of the market, they know bugger all about, isn't likely to end well.

Sales are up, so is the population . Numbers are very easily manipulated. You've been seeing clear evidence of that for long enough now.

Anyone with basic observations skills can see we're in trouble.

Suzuki's lack of interest is more writing on the walls. Not enough profit in it. They make way better money in other sectors of the market.

KTM sales and profit up year on year ,but you will ignore that 

The Suzuki part is the one you will focus on ...

I have been in Mx for over 30 years ,it's booming imo 

 

We have more riders,more bikes, more tracks than ever before 

Edited July 20, 2021 by mog

[SantaCruzin]

26 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

"What kind of guy takes such good news and turns .......".  Ya mean?

A realistic one.

Our sport is under attack, has been for yrs. Hate to tell you. But, they're slowly winning. We're slowly losing.

If they had half a brain, they'd put their money into making a more off rd competent ADV bike. Yamaha got close to the Unicorn, look at the sales. imagine when they get it right.

Our future is in ADV. 

You don't want to admit to what you're observing with your own eyes. The positive is, we're old, the sport should be still around when we die.

My old man never could have imagined the end of shooting and hunting in this country. But, It's been wiped out now. It was a lot more popular than dirt bikes.

I very much respect a great many of your opinions, but I gotta disagree with this one. No one, and I mean no one, can predict what will happen with a market. I am very active in the bike industry (as a consumer and working with various brands) and can say, without hesitation, that no one expected them to be where they are right now. Literally turning away hungry retailers who want to stock their products because supply can not keep up with demand. 2020 was the best year on record for many bike brands and 2021 has not slowed.

My sample size might be small, but I can say a few things from my personal off-road motorcycle experience:
• The places I rode in the 90's and early 00's are immensely more crowded now then they were then.
• Both of my kids are OBSESSED with motorcycles. Early exposure was the key and the CRF50F waiting in the garage for Christmas morning is going to get plenty of use.
• I personally find them annoying, but the number of electric "motorcycles" I've seen getting trucked out to the riding areas has steadily increased over the last few years. People I NEVER would have seen riding a regular dirt bike show up on their sur ron and leave with a smile on their face.

Edited July 20, 2021 by SantaCruzin

[Drop-Bear]

9 minutes ago, mog said:

KTM sales and profit up year on year ,but you will ignore that 

The Suzuki part is the one you will focus on ...

I have been in Mx for over 30 years ,it's booming imo 

 

We have more riders,more bikes, more tracks than ever before 

Well, best you hope an entire industry is interested in supporting a sport and hobby that only exists in one country ?

I've been riding for 46 yrs, going to the races since birth. We used to have to knock riders back before rides to keep numbers down. We had the choice of many different rides. these days. I'm riding alone. 

I bought the first Beta 450 in 05. I would still support a new MFG-r. I paid 14K for that Beta, knowing I'd get 5K back for it as soon as I pushed it out of the store, and did get 5K for it. After 12 months, and no one looks after a bike, better than me. They get better over time, not worse.

I've spent almost every cent I've ever had on bikes, and always will.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Drop-Bear

[mog]

KTM sell across the world ....your experience is not the world 

[redrider144]

3 hours ago, zig06 said:

Well, based on the last article that I read about Cannondale they said that it would take 80 million dollars and 5 years to bring an all new MX bike to the market.  Triumph probably has the money so how long have they been working on it?

That was for a company that never produced a motorcyle before.  I would expect the cost to be much lower for Triumph.

[Drop-Bear]

9 minutes ago, SantaCruzin said:

I very much respect a great many of your opinions, but I gotta disagree with this one. No one, and I mean no one, can predict what will happen with a market. I am very active in the bike industry (as a consumer and working with various brands) and can say, without hesitation, that no one expected them to be where they are right now. Literally turning away hungry retailers who want to stock their products because supply can not keep up with demand. 2020 was the best year on record for many bike brands and 2021 has not slowed.

My sample size might be small, but I can say a few things from my personal off-road motorcycle experience:
• The places I rode in the 90's and early 00's are immensely more crowded now then they were then.
• Both of my kids are OBSESSED with motorcycles. Early exposure was the key and the CRF50F waiting in the garage for Christmas morning is going to get plenty of use.
• I personally find them annoying, but the number of electric "motorcycles" I've seen getting trucked out to the riding areas has steadily increased over the last few years. People I NEVER would have seen riding a regular dirt bike show up on their sur ron and leave with a smile on their face.

I told Cricketers the sport was dying yrs ago. 

When I played Cricket. we had 3 under 16 teams. i was captain of the A-team. If I didn't train both nights, no game, too many kids that were training both nights, were still missing out, even with 3 teams.
So may kids played football, if your parents weren't there and keeping on the coaches back, no matter how good you were, you were a bench warmer.

There is a sign up at our busiest Intersection ATM, asking for jr football players to make up reams. And Cricket, they just manage to make up a team of all ages, if they're lucky.

If you watch Cricket or football, on the TV, you'd think the sports were thriving. But, they're dying.

I'm always right. But, that doesn't always mean I want to be 

 

Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated ?
 

[redrider144]

17 minutes ago, mog said:

I have been in Mx for over 30 years ,it's booming imo 

We have more riders,more bikes, more tracks than ever before 

Agreed.  Every hare scramble / enduro race I've been to in the past 12+ months (and there were many) had record turnout.

Edited July 20, 2021 by redrider144

[Drop-Bear]

4 minutes ago, mog said:

KTM sell across the world ....your experience is not the world 

We were supporting KTM here long before the rest of the world . Then Canada caught on. Took the rest of ya's yrs 

Just now, redrider144 said:

Agreed.  Every hare scramble / enduro race I've been to in the past 12+ months (and there were many) had record turnout.

Less opportunity's to ride will always give that false perception.

[redrider144]

3 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

Less opportunity's to ride will always give that false perception.

Rona probably had a lot to do with the record turnouts, but there hasn't been less opportunities to ride as far as that goes vs the year prior.

Record turnout is record turnout, there's no perception involved.  The perception would be arguing about what caused it (sport growing vs Rona outlier).

Edited July 20, 2021 by redrider144

[Drop-Bear]

There's a good reason why Aussie's have broken into the top of the AMA MX and off rd. Moto GP, Speedway GP's, etc etc etc. We've been dirt bike mad since they were invented. 
Look at our population, 25 mill, but was closer to 15 mill when Chad left here. We've always punched well above our weight.

Bit, these day, "they" make it so hard, for a lot of people, It's just too hard for most people.

4 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

Rona probably had a lot to do with the record turnouts, but there hasn't been less opportunities to ride as far as that goes vs the year prior.

Record turnout is record turnout, there's no perception involved.  The perception would be arguing about what caused it (sport growing vs Rona outlier).

In Mog's part of the world, I'm betting there has been less events. As far as the Five Eye's go, you lot have been very lucky. American's that is. The rest of us have copped it, and still are.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Drop-Bear