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Shouldn't KTM be moved to Chinese Motorcycles section??


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56 minutes ago, trailmeisterjoe said:

Since you mention a TRACK, kindly point out the ( implied electronic injection) on this new KTM SX 250.  Its counterpart YZ also has a carb , but can you tell us where that $4000 came from too?? Inquiring minds want to know. Surely you aren't comparing a MOTOCROSS bike with an off road/ trail one now are you? 

https://www.ktm.com/en-us/models/mx/2-stroke/ktm-250-sx-2022.html

Joe

Defensive much, Joe?

Look at the quote in my post.  That's  where $4k came from.  Accurate number or not, the comment was about the substantial difference in price between brands - not any specific model.  My comment about carbs was also a general point (which has been argued ad nauseum in other threads) - not brand or model specific.  

Simple is good.  Simple is reliable.  Form should always follow function.  Gadgets and electronics that do nothing to improve performance or reliability are worthless IMO.  The "techy" factor doesn't impress me.

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On 10/12/2021 at 6:31 AM, dirtjumpordie said:

Its not just headshake lol.  Those bikes are so unstable in any gnarly situation.  They buck left and right any time you hit more than 2 bumps in a row. 

It's the guy hanging on to the bars - not the bike.  It's not a beginner's bike.

Edited by JJ10
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12 hours ago, trailmeisterjoe said:

Really? Look at the obvious components first.... on 2 strokes ( YZX vs XC fyi) ....black painted pipe vs thicker plated one, still old school cable clutch vs hydraulic, better hub material, same with triple clamps. Even handle bars better. Then look inside engine: Electric start, and counter balanced engine ( ever put an idling YZ on one side of you and an XC on another and grab each one at the same time? Amazing vibration difference, and that is just at idle).  Then the gearbox ....I will take a 6 speed trans over a 5 speed one everywhere.  2 stroke XC is also fuel injected vs YZX being carburetor. Heck, you even get a half gallon larger tank with the KTM.

Joe

I can't restrain myself any more. Why the &%$#@! did the lawyer think the judge would care???

 

 

 Really?????   Quote "FIRST words out of ex wife's FIRST attorneys mouth " Your honor, Mr. F..... is a BIG dirt rider!!" "

Who cared?????

 

Edited by RichieGoatGruff
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21 hours ago, Red NT said:

They go good, but having to recoat the fork tubes at 80hrs hurts. Was a lot cheaper to get the Marzocchi forks on my 98 KTM working better!

That sucks, but hey the whole bike is awesome now.

You've been riding much? I'll be taking mine to work for the odd afternoon blat for a while, got a pesky problem with a siezed airscrew to fix.

Well, Wilkinson Engineering will have a problem to fix with their multitude of machinist tools.

Just gotta find a round tuit, might throw it in the work truck tonight and stop by on my way home from Batchelor tomorrow arvo.

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11 hours ago, JJ10 said:

It's the guy hanging on to the bars - not the bike.  It's not a beginner's bike.

Not even close to the problem. I ride the same track back to back on a Yamaha, and then do the same exact things on a KTM.  The KTMs are highly unstable compared to any other brand.

It actually IS a beginner bike, because you'd only like those bikes if you didn't know how a good chassis was supposed to handle.  

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On 9/20/2021 at 6:54 PM, mixxer said:

Valid question ... Who's with me??

Now that KTM is 50% Chinese owned...

And there are plans to move much of the production to China to save on manufacturing costs (that won't be passed on to the consumer) ...

It's one thing to be a non Chinese company having things made China to your standards...

But once you are fully 50% Chinese owned AND are being manufactured in China.... I think your bike brand should be moved under the general topic heading of :

"Chinese Motorcycles"

NuhTing Wong wit dat....😘

Hey...

Its a valid point.

I'm with you. So yea I agree.

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36 minutes ago, dirtjumpordie said:

Not even close to the problem. I ride the same track back to back on a Yamaha, and then do the same exact things on a KTM.  The KTMs are highly unstable compared to any other brand.

It actually IS a beginner bike, because you'd only like those bikes if you didn't know how a good chassis was supposed to handle.  

I completely misunderstood your post.  I thought you were saying YZs were unstable.  My bad.

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18 hours ago, adnohguy said:

Is that all you get for an extra $4,000.00. You can get 20 pipes plated for $4,000.00 and an oversized fuel tank also. 
personally, I like lighter pipes rather than heavy, never had any trouble lubing clutch cables or lever pivots. Never even broke a cable because it’s called “maintenance “ 

And what the heck is wrong with a carb. No sensors, wiring, fuel pump, other electric items to go bad, in the middle of no where. 

Not to mention KTM's , at least the 3 I have owned....suck ass...

Until they win prove they can win a motocross championship or supercross championship in America....  They are just high dollar poser bikes , owned by China, made in India....and only win when they are the only ones entered...

...just like Hardly Ableson bikes...

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On 9/20/2021 at 4:28 AM, mixxer said:

It is still Japanese run ... And has to meet Japanese QC...

The foreign 3rd world country needs to have the money influx and absolutely has to meet the contracting company demands...

Right.  That's like saying that DC absolutely has to follow the law.

Japan doesn't inspect everything it buys from China.  It only requires its suppliers to certify that parts conform to the Japanese specifications.  China and India both are infamous for counterfeiting materials and falsifying certifications.  It's what China does best.

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1 hour ago, mixxer said:

Not to mention KTM's , at least the 3 I have owned....suck ass...

Until they win prove they can win a motocross championship or supercross championship in America....  They are just high dollar poser bikes , owned by China, made in India....and only win when they are the only ones entered...

...just like Hardly Ableson bikes...

2015, 2016, 2017, 2019 in Supercross. Didn't bother to even check motocross ( but you can just as easily)

https://motocrossactionmag.com/every-ama-supercross-champion-ever-there-are-only-23-of-them/

Joe

 

Edited by trailmeisterjoe
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5 minutes ago, JJ10 said:

Right.  That's like saying that DC absolutely has to follow the law.

Japan doesn't inspect everything it buys from China.  It only requires its suppliers to certify that parts conform to the Japanese specifications.  China and India both are infamous for counterfeiting materials and falsifying certifications.  It's what China does best.

Suppliers can be dropped if they drop the ball and cost the parent company reputation and lost warranty revenue....

Now if you are OWNED by a Chinese or Indian company.... You certainly can't drop them as a supplier....

Huge difference between a contracted supplier, contingent on performance....

And being OWNED by a 3rd world country manufacturer....

Tell me that isn't abundantly clear..

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5 minutes ago, mixxer said:

Championship....

Not a race won here or there ..

American Motocross and Supercross...

Not events where other manufacturers aren't sponsoring teams other than KTM 

I'll wait while someone compiles that long list while scratching their turban....😎

 

You make zero sense......if Dungey won the 2015, 2016, and 2017 supercross championships it wasn't just a race......it was the season.

Joe

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5 minutes ago, trailmeisterjoe said:

You make zero sense......if Dungey won the 2015, 2016, and 2017 supercross championships it wasn't just a race......it was the season.

Joe

Ok... That's 3... With one rider... Pretty dismal overall... Absolutely nothing to thump chest over...

Results saying Ryan was a dominant rider at the time, since nobody else is winning on them....

Where are the motocross championships?? 

Also.... With all the Indian and Chinese made parts, when will the KTM prices drop commensurate with all the other 3rd world produced bikes??

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14 minutes ago, mixxer said:

Suppliers can be dropped if they drop the ball and cost the parent company reputation and lost warranty revenue....

Now if you are OWNED by a Chinese or Indian company.... You certainly can't drop them as a supplier....

Huge difference between a contracted supplier, contingent on performance....

And being OWNED by a 3rd world country manufacturer....

Tell me that isn't abundantly clear..

You're lecturing the wrong guy about supply chain and supplier qualification.

I agree that if China and or India have ownership, they can compromise at will.  But your statement that they will be honest just because a customer (Japan) gives them specifications is naive.  China has proven that it cannot be trusted for years.  And it gets away with it because in many industries the counterfeiting will be overlooked.

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4 minutes ago, JJ10 said:

You're lecturing the wrong guy about supply chain and supplier qualification.

I agree that if China and or India have ownership, they can compromise at will.  But your statement that they will be honest just because a customer (Japan) gives them specifications is naive.  China has proven that it cannot be trusted for years.  And it gets away with it because in many industries the counterfeiting will be overlooked.

How long do you think a big established Japanese company would continue to use a contracted supplier of inadequate parts that cost them warranty revenue and reputation for future sales??

If junk parts kill your reputation, you have nothing.... 

Not lecturing you btw... Using you as a sounding board to continue discussion...

 

 

 

 

Edited by mixxer
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