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Spring rate question


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On 10/5/2021 at 7:36 PM, mlatour said:

Count on stiffer fork springs as well.

I’m not too sure in that one, I like the way the bike corners, I want a stiffer rear because I can see where my tire has rubbed my fender, and all I was doing was trail riding, and I plan on riding moto on this.

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38 minutes ago, Elijah Collier said:

I’m not too sure in that one, I like the way the bike corners, I want a stiffer rear because I can see where my tire has rubbed my fender, and all I was doing was trail riding, and I plan on riding moto on this.

You need to up the spring rates on both end. The bike would be unbalanced and handle even worse then it handles now

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2 hours ago, Elijah Collier said:

I’m not too sure in that one, I like the way the bike corners, I want a stiffer rear because I can see where my tire has rubbed my fender, and all I was doing was trail riding, and I plan on riding moto on this.

The overall spring rate only accounts for certain characteristics but it's the basis before anything else is done,

proper spring preload and internal valving are then the major contributors to a good handling/cornering bike.

 

Edited by mlatour
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4 hours ago, chadk66 said:

Stiffer rear spring isn’t going to stop from rubbing on the fender.  Is your shock bumper smoked? 

No I’m 220 on stock springs I know for a fact the stock spring is way too soft

10 hours ago, Hans Schmid said:

You need to up the spring rates on both end. The bike would be unbalanced and handle even worse then it handles now

The front feels perfect right now, it’s just the rear is too soft

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8 hours ago, mlatour said:

The overall spring rate only accounts for certain characteristics but it's the basis before anything else is done,

proper spring preload and internal valving are then the major contributors to a good handling/cornering bike.

 

It handles and corners perfectly, I just want stiffer springs so I can actually set the proper sag

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1 minute ago, Elijah Collier said:

No I’m 220 on stock springs I know for a fact the stock spring is way too soft

The front feels perfect right now, it’s just the rear is too soft

You probably don't understand suspension and how it works if you think the front is great but the rear is too soft... 

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Just now, Hans Schmid said:

You probably don't understand suspension and how it works if you think the front is great but the rear is too soft... 

but it quite literally handles perfect, my only gripe is the rear tire rubbed on the fender, that just shows that the rear shock is not stiff enough, on top of that the sag was never set correctly.

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14 minutes ago, Elijah Collier said:

but it quite literally handles perfect, my only gripe is the rear tire rubbed on the fender, that just shows that the rear shock is not stiff enough, on top of that the sag was never set correctly.

Ok, but the stock spring rates are too soft both front and rear. Because it's your bike, it might feel prefect, but that doesn't mean it is. Likely it's no where near optimal and can be vastly improved upon. When you put 'just' as stiffer rear spring on, it's going to transfer more weight to the front causing the forks to sit lower in the stroke, in turn making them feel harsher. The rear will kick and dance and the bike will be unstable. 

But you seem to be unwilling to listen and you'll do whatever you want. So good luck... 

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3 minutes ago, Hans Schmid said:

Ok, but the stock spring rates are too soft both front and rear. Because it's your bike, it might feel prefect, but that doesn't mean it is. Likely it's no where near optimal and can be vastly improved upon. When you put 'just' as stiffer rear spring on, it's going to transfer more weight to the front causing the forks to sit lower in the stroke, in turn making them feel harsher. The rear will kick and dance and the bike will be unstable. 

But you seem to be unwilling to listen and you'll do whatever you want. So good luck... 

Well I didn’t know that how it worked, and I’m gonna be completely honest with you, I’m not buying fork springs cause I can’t afford them, so I’ll just deal with what I have.

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50 minutes ago, Elijah Collier said:

No I’m 220 on stock springs I know for a fact the stock spring is way too soft

The front feels perfect right now, it’s just the rear is too soft

Well obviously you have too soft or spring in both front and rear.  My point is the spring will do nothing to prevent rubbing on the fender. The shock has a bump stop to present that.  It’s the polyurethane piece that stops the shaft from going too far into the shock body. You can see it inside the spring at the bottom unless it’s chewed up and gone. You say your fork springs seem fine well that’s most likely due to the rear shock being so soft it’s putting all the load on the rear end making the forks feel good. When you get the right rear spring on your will see the fork springs are then going to feel as soft as the rear shock does now. 

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1 minute ago, chadk66 said:

Well obviously you have too soft or spring in both front and rear.  My point is the spring will do nothing to prevent rubbing on the fender. The shock has a bump stop to present that.  It’s the polyurethane piece that stops the shaft from going too far into the shock body. You can see it inside the spring at the bottom unless it’s chewed up and gone. You say your fork springs seem fine well that’s most likely due to the rear shock being so soft it’s putting all the load on the rear end making the forks feel good. When you get the right rear spring on your will see the fork springs are then going to feel as soft as the rear shock does now. 

There is no bumper and I’m not even bottoming out my shock the tire has just leafy marks on the fenders, I’ve even looked into it and it happens to just about any bike.

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The bottoming bumper is on the lower part of the shock shaft, where the shock spring seats.

 

Bike/shock is 20 years old, if it wasn't serviced recently,

the fluid, piston band and bumper are probably all worn way beyond their useful lifespan and,

the bladder's nitrogen charge low, all contributors to mushy suspension and weird handling.

 

Going to a stiffer shock spring will be a band-aid if the shock is overdue for servicing.

 

As mentioned by Hans, front/rear spring rates are matched to work together, otherwise one end will be fighting the other.

Proper handling in general is a question of front/rear balance, issues on either affect the opposite end.

 

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Edited by mlatour
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