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ThumperTalk to rename as: "Forum For All Who Can't Read and Won't Buy a Manual"


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I'm all about ThumperTalk for the community of dirt bikers that wouldn't know one another if not for the internet...

But....

Daily I am blown away by the onslaught of ill formed questions that would not need to be asked if anyone would do the first thing you should ALWAYS do when acquiring a new machine:

BUY THE FREAKING OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL....!!!!!!!!!

If you don't want all the specs and information straight from the company that designed and built your machine.... WTF is wrong with your brain?!?

I can totally see people needing help with sorting things out after checking the manual, but I just can't imagine all the basic BS level questions asked .... Even down to things like oil changes and chain tightening ...

I'm totally down with helping people ....after they have done what I consider the absolute minimum to help themselves with the PURCHASE OF THE OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL...!!!!!

Hard copy... Not pdf... So you can write tuning details and notes in it for future reference...

I almost believe that the millennial generation needs a YouTube video to tie their shoes or wipe their ass... As if READING has become a lost dark art...

This thread was finally inspired by a thread I had read this morning where links to videos were being posted for someone begging for help with oil change and chain tightening information....  There is absolutely nothing that guarantees the person in the video knows his ass from a hole in the ground, or himself owns an OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL for his reference... Yet people take is as gospel... Hard to imagine....

Anyways.... Had to get that off my chest... Don't be so lazy and cheap as to not do the bare bones minimum and skip a few IPA's or White Claw Seltzer's or whatever you non manual buying Nancy Boys drink ...and save up for a manual...

Do it.... The world will become a better place... One IQ point at a time 🤘👍😎

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Why would you bother when the whole book , full of all your notes, is on a shelf right next to your work bench??

You might as well have the awesome real life manual once and for all ...rather than printing pages to be scattered or thrown away after each use....

You gonna get a 3D printer and only print the wrench you need each time while you are at it???

My way is better... No valid argument to the contrary...

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41 minutes ago, mixxer said:

I'm all about ThumperTalk for the community of dirt bikers that wouldn't know one another if not for the internet...

But....

Daily I am blown away by the onslaught of ill formed questions that would not need to be asked if anyone would do the first thing you should ALWAYS do when acquiring a new machine:

BUY THE FREAKING OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL....!!!!!!!!!

If you don't want all the specs and information straight from the company that designed and built your machine.... WTF is wrong with your brain?!?

I can totally see people needing help with sorting things out after checking the manual, but I just can't imagine all the basic BS level questions asked .... Even down to things like oil changes and chain tightening ...

I'm totally down with helping people ....after they have done what I consider the absolute minimum to help themselves with the PURCHASE OF THE OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL...!!!!!

Hard copy... Not pdf... So you can write tuning details and notes in it for future reference...

I almost believe that the millennial generation needs a YouTube video to tie their shoes or wipe their ass... As if READING has become a lost dark art...

This thread was finally inspired by a thread I had read this morning where links to videos were being posted for someone begging for help with oil change and chain tightening information....  There is absolutely nothing that guarantees the person in the video knows his ass from a hole in the ground, or himself owns an OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL for his reference... Yet people take is as gospel... Hard to imagine....

Anyways.... Had to get that off my chest... Don't be so lazy and cheap as to not do the bare bones minimum and skip a few IPA's or White Claw Seltzer's or whatever you non manual buying Nancy Boys drink ...and save up for a manual...

Do it.... The world will become a better place... One IQ point at a time 🤘👍😎

Yeah, but could you win a fight against twelve 12yr olds? 

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35 minutes ago, mixxer said:

Why would you bother when the whole book , full of all your notes, is on a shelf right next to your work bench??

You might as well have the awesome real life manual once and for all ...rather than printing pages to be scattered or thrown away after each use....

You gonna get a 3D printer and only print the wrench you need each time while you are at it???

My way is better... No valid argument to the contrary...

Because I can bootleg a pdf manual for free, and print out what I need, and organize it in a binder. It's really not that complicated. Then when I get the pages covered in dirt and grease I just replace them if need be.

Most of the people on here asking dumb questions probably don't even have the tools to work on their machine anyway, so a service manual won't do them much good. And if they do have the tools they probably don't know how to use them, or the difference between 1/4" and 3/8" drive ratchet, 6 and 12 point sockets, really basic stuff.

At my job I've had to show kids who were still in highschool how to use a cordless drill. Kids are not taught how to repair things or how to use tools, their parents were raised in a throw-away society, and they pass that down to the next generation. That probably won't change anytime soon.

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'Bootleg'  = Steal which in turn eventually means a 'dealer only' item, not sold to the general public.

You buy a bike, the first thing that should be done is read the manual. A dozen times. Know every bolt, every washer. Look for errors in the manual. Study the parts fiche. Print out the pages even. All of them. Now go look at your bike. Every single visible part should make sense. Parts you cannot see, you should be visualizing. Once you have this down pat, Check the bike over for proper condition. Fix everything that needs to be fixed or adjusted. Now ride the bike for the first time.

 

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14 minutes ago, stupidmoto said:

Because I can bootleg a pdf manual for free, and print out what I need, and organize it in a binder. It's really not that complicated. Then when I get the pages covered in dirt and grease I just replace them if need be.

Most of the people on here asking dumb questions probably don't even have the tools to work on their machine anyway, so a service manual won't do them much good. And if they do have the tools they probably don't know how to use them, or the difference between 1/4" and 3/8" drive ratchet, 6 and 12 point sockets, really basic stuff.

At my job I've had to show kids who were still in highschool how to use a cordless drill. Kids are not taught how to repair things or how to use tools, their parents were raised in a throw-away society, and they pass that down to the next generation. That probably won't change anytime soon.

I didn't say buying a computer.. a printer...ink...paper...binder...bootlegging a PDF...  printing it out and organizing it was complicated... What I'm trying to say is I think it's stupid compared to just buying the freaking manual once and being done with it....

I grew up dirt poor with just mom and grandma holding down the farm... Rode my bike to the library to learn everything ... No male figure.  No legit tools... No internet... Just determination and an unstoppable desire to learn...

It didn't come from someone else, and it didn't bootleg for free in any manner....  Not a lack of parenting effort from my mom and grandma..  they were both angels and warriors for our little family... But they were not mechanically versed...

 

 

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7 minutes ago, William1 said:

'Bootleg'  = Steal which in turn eventually means a 'dealer only' item, not sold to the general public.

You buy a bike, the first thing that should be done is read the manual. A dozen times. Know every bolt, every washer. Look for errors in the manual. Study the parts fiche. Print out the pages even. All of them. Now go look at your bike. Every single visible part should make sense. Parts you cannot see, you should be visualizing. Once you have this down pat, Check the bike over for proper condition. Fix everything that needs to be fixed or adjusted. Now ride the bike for the first time.

 

Bravo!!!👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👊👊👊

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My service manuals are the most important tool in the garage when it comes to working on the bikes. The one for the RM was put in plastic sleeves, and put into a 3 ring binder. I also printed out all the parts diagrams and part numbers for it. After the engine/trans sat in pieces for 10 years I was able to open the manual and reassemble it like I had just taken it apart earlier in the day.

I also highlight the most common fasteners I mess with in the torque spec charts which makes finding them much quicker and ensures I don't mess it up.

This has reminded me I need to start printing out the parts diagrams for the other bikes. 

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52 minutes ago, William1 said:

'Bootleg'  = Steal which in turn eventually means a 'dealer only' item, not sold to the general public.

You buy a bike, the first thing that should be done is read the manual. A dozen times. Know every bolt, every washer. Look for errors in the manual. Study the parts fiche. Print out the pages even. All of them. Now go look at your bike. Every single visible part should make sense. Parts you cannot see, you should be visualizing. Once you have this down pat, Check the bike over for proper condition. Fix everything that needs to be fixed or adjusted. Now ride the bike for the first time.

 

I couldn't get a service manual for my RMX when I bought it new, dealership wasn't getting one anytime soon, but I could download a PDF for a 2010 RMX. Should I have just not rode my new bike because I didn't have the service manual? Heck the dealer didn't even give me the correct owners manual, they gave me one for an RM-Z lol

With your logic, why don't I have access to dealer only diagnostic tools to actually diagnose my EFI system? Its obviously not because people were bootlegging diagnostic computers. If it was up to the dealership, they would be doing all the work on our bikes. And maybe if the service manual wasn't $100+ for a paper back copy more people would be willing to buy one. 

I remember bootlegging $800 video editing software as a teenager. Now the current version of that software is only $200, so it obviously wasn't worth $800 10 years ago. 

I'm all for supporting my local dealer. That's why I bought $9k bike from them. But if they can't get me a service manual, I'll get one myself.

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Yeah, but if everyone here read service manuals, used common sense, and learned by screwing up on their own with no help, all we'd have left to talk about on this site would be what's the best bike, oil, tire, chain, spark plug, boots, etc.  Or worse yet, Town Square politics and Covid. Yuck! 😰

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I'd say it isn't millineials, it's the semen demons they raised.  The youngest millineial is over 20 now, and while some are pretty useless, a majority are the people you work with daily now. 

I'm a millineial, I'm getting pretty close to being 40 now.  I buy paper manuals for some bikes, or buy the pdf for others.  Other times I just google what I need to know.  Sometimes a clear color picture of timing marks and cams lined up is easier than a poorly printed black and white.  Or there is a trick others know if you don't have the $100 special factory tool.

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2 hours ago, mixxer said:

I'm all about ThumperTalk for the community of dirt bikers that wouldn't know one another if not for the internet...

But....

Daily I am blown away by the onslaught of ill formed questions that would not need to be asked if anyone would do the first thing you should ALWAYS do when acquiring a new machine:

BUY THE FREAKING OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL....!!!!!!!!!

If you don't want all the specs and information straight from the company that designed and built your machine.... WTF is wrong with your brain?!?

I can totally see people needing help with sorting things out after checking the manual, but I just can't imagine all the basic BS level questions asked .... Even down to things like oil changes and chain tightening ...

I'm totally down with helping people ....after they have done what I consider the absolute minimum to help themselves with the PURCHASE OF THE OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL...!!!!!

Hard copy... Not pdf... So you can write tuning details and notes in it for future reference...

I almost believe that the millennial generation needs a YouTube video to tie their shoes or wipe their ass... As if READING has become a lost dark art...

This thread was finally inspired by a thread I had read this morning where links to videos were being posted for someone begging for help with oil change and chain tightening information....  There is absolutely nothing that guarantees the person in the video knows his ass from a hole in the ground, or himself owns an OEM FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL for his reference... Yet people take is as gospel... Hard to imagine....

Anyways.... Had to get that off my chest... Don't be so lazy and cheap as to not do the bare bones minimum and skip a few IPA's or White Claw Seltzer's or whatever you non manual buying Nancy Boys drink ...and save up for a manual...

Do it.... The world will become a better place... One IQ point at a time 🤘👍😎

I agree manuals are essential tools.  But if questions that would be answered by reading the manual are so annoying to you, why are you reading those threads?  You could just move on to a topic that doesn't piss you off, and let the the basic topics be answered by other guys who also don't know what they're talking about.

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Many bikes now (Austria, cough, cough...) haven't sold printed manuals in years.  CD/pdf only.

I get the pdf manuals, print them out, and then bind them up.  Also locations you can buy manuals pre-bound if you look (and it isn't hard to do/find).

And just to throw this out there:  if you have a Beta, the Beta USA website has ALL of the manuals (owners, full service, and part diagrams) online for download free of charge.

As for those that post the stupid questions, do what I do, just hover over the thread title, see the blurb of what they want, then move on without even opening the thread.  Makes life much less stressful.

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2 minutes ago, JJ10 said:

I agree manuals are essential tools.  But if questions that would be answered by reading the manual are so annoying to you, why are you reading those threads?  You could just move on to a topic that doesn't piss you off, and let the the basic topics be answered by other guys who also don't know what they're talking about.

I don't read them 90% of the time... I just see the thread titles all day every day....

I'm trying to be proactive and encourage manual buying/ reading ...instead of pretending this poverty of knowledge doesn't exist...

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