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rmz vs. crf

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just a guess, but probably not well. i think that when the newer bikes come out, they have a few problems with them, not big or anything, but its still a problem. just like the crf250x and its valve problem, and i think the crf250r and burning oil. IMO i think the crf 450 would win now, with equal riders, but in a few years, if all of the kinks are worked out, that could be a totally different story

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ya

So well said. Typical...

Why speculate? Just wait a couple of months...and we will see. But, as always it comes back to the rider, an riding styles. These bikes are almost identical - so who knows?

Or, you can be an ignorant consumer and believe what the mags say.

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Here's my opinion. The RM-Z will be comparable to the CRF with regard to motor, suspension, brakes, etc. This difference will be the obvious: color, and one comes from a Suzuki dealer and one comes from a Honda dealer. If you, like me, don't like Honda dealers - buy the Suzuki. If you don't like the Honda or Suzuki dealers...

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If we look at the 250's as a gage to what level Suz. is going to come out. It's a good indication the RMZ 450 will be a real contender out of the box. I think the real issue is when are we going to see it on the floors. They may be having some small issues like over heating or electric. They maybe doing the work inhouse(recalls kill). This could also be a way to keep the RM250 sales up due to production cost on the 450. Most likely the Showa suspension will be plush and the pro racer would want to stiffin up. The motor should be good but I want to see real weight numbers. I think in 06' the battle of the fatbodies will be on. Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki will all be Alum. framed high output thumpers. It will be interesting to see which direction each manufacture will go in it's power delivery. :thumbsup:

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I don't believe that the first year bike thing is that big of a deal. Suzuki has been redesigning their streetbikes every 2 years w/ often completely different frames, engines, etc and they are always winners. I believe that CAD has really reduced the amount of work it takes to engineer a bike. They can test a lot of theories w/ the programming as opposed to actually building a bike and sending the test riders out to test every little design issue.

I would be very surprised if the company that had the best 2 strokes last year didn't have a swinging 450 right out of the gate. I imagine it will very light and have a rippin' motor, just like the Zook streetbikes.

I personally really wanted an RMZ but I just couldn't get any solid info, plus I can buy the CRF for about 1K less so I finally gave up and put my deposit on the CRF.

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If we look at the 250's as a gage to what level Suz. is going to come out. It's a good indication the RMZ 450 will be a real contender out of the box. I think the real issue is when are we going to see it on the floors. They may be having some small issues like over heating or electric. They maybe doing the work inhouse(recalls kill). This could also be a way to keep the RM250 sales up due to production cost on the 450. Most likely the Showa suspension will be plush and the pro racer would want to stiffin up. The motor should be good but I want to see real weight numbers. I think in 06' the battle of the fatbodies will be on. Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki will all be Alum. framed high output thumpers. It will be interesting to see which direction each manufacture will go in it's power delivery. :thumbsup:

I highly doubt Suzuki is making production changes. I think this initial release units are in transit or are in a warehouse somewhere. Mags and AM guys have there test bikes. The RM-Z250 hasn't be fully released either...though some dealerships have gotten them.

One of the biggest differences between the CRF and the RM-Z is that the CRF is feul injected.:devil:

No, really the RM-Z's 4-speed tranny is about it. I don't know about you, but I never hit 5th gear on my RM at my local track. I think having the broader range in gearing will actually help me out. I've ridden a friends CRF and didn't even think about shifting...so who knows. I suppose you'll learn to ride it either way.

Speaking of which I did a little test yesterday morning at a "desert" track near-by. Ran a hot lap on my RM250 at :2:01. Then hopped on my bro's RM-Z250 and did a warmup lap at :1:59, then a hot lap at :1:57. Not saying that I am getting impatient - but, I am more tempted now to ride the RM-Z250 for a year and wait for the '06 450.

Kit

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If this weight loss battle gets serious enough, we might start seeing more work on the springless suspensions (which save major lbs) and the V twin, (again, more weight loss) KTM is linkageless(more weight loss) Geez, if somebody made a bike with all of those, they'd dump about 20-25 lbs, I'm guessing. How cool would that be?

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I don't know if infinite weight loss is a good idea. At some point there is a fall off in the bell curve of weight/power-on-the-ground ratio. Haven't a clue what that'd be, and I suppose it would have to include rider weight. For me, at 165, I probably don't want the bikes to get much lighter.

Hmmn. I do think we are looking at extreme/radical new technologies to get any lighter. Cool stuff.

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Linkless rear= non progressive suspension= bad

V-twins= show me a V-twin that is lighter than the same cc single- true they make great power but they are still heavy

lighter frames= pros already replace the aluminum frames every race because they stretch- how much lighter should they go?

Air shocks> air shocks are a great weight savings item we will see later. They seem to have more stiction in my experience with them but that can be reduced.

I defintely think bikes could shave another 10 or so pounds but hopefully they still keep them somewhat reliable.

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One of the biggest differences between the CRF and the RM-Z is that the CRF is feul injected.:thumbsup:

Kit

not this year ,I wish

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I'm thinking they have many 04 CRF's, YZF's, and 450SX's sitting around there test tracks and there labs. They are probably riding them into the ground and having many people say what they like about them and what they don't. This is the "R" part of R&D.

Then they will look at what has made the RM250 successful in 2004 and try to keep all the good qualities.

The problem is that Honda is doing the same thing, and is already starting with an 04 CRF. So I'm sure the RMZ will be better than an 04 bike, but who knows what everyone is doing for 05?

I'd say it will have more power than a CRF, probably be a pound or two heavier with fluids (wet) and the next year or two they will be tweaking with the frame to get some of the stiffness out of it like Honda did from 1997 to 2001. The 2002 CR was the first really good frame. (ie. they didn't change it much the next two years)

The 250F had some problems (rad too small, combined cover??, etc.) which are all fixed on the 2005 model. I'd expect Suzuki has learned from those and is doing extra testing to make sure the 450 won't overheat.

I'd say the best reason to buy a Z450 is the coolness factor. If you want a reliable bike etc. get a RM250 or some other proven design that's been around the block for years. But if you get the 450, be ready for a lot of "WOW's". I know I had a 2002 CDale (Serial #18) and it was a really cool bike til they went belly up.

Cheers,

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