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440 making strange noises - Sugestions?

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I've got the Wiseco 440 kit in my 2001 DRZ-S. Installed by a Suzuki dealer at my request.

Since I also changed the gearbox at the same time, I decided to run the bike in acording to the service manual. It says first 800km - max 1/2 throttle and next 800km - max 3/4 throttle. When the bike had done aproximately 120km I started noticing noises from the top end. Several people also heard this, and sugestions of valve problem, camchain problem or piston-knocking was brought up. We quickly checked the camchaintensioner and found it working as new.

Not knowing what it was, but needing to get home. I drove the bike carefully the 500kms home and, a couple of days later, drove it 100kms more to my favourite dealer.

The dealer also heard the noises, couldn't explain what it was, but told me I definitively shouldnt ride the bike home like that. So I left it der for them to dismantle.

A week later, on the phone, the dealer tels me they can't find anything wrong(?). Their best bet, they say, is problems with the piston rod (a little shaky on the english terms her, but that area of the engine anyway). They tell me I could either have them put the engine back together and ride it til it breaks so they can find the fault, send the parts in for costly and timely measurements, or come up whith some suplier of new, better parts myself.

Any sugestions?

The engine is still stock except for the wiseco 440 kit (new piston, cilinder sleeve). The compression is raised to 13.1. Airbox modified and carb rejetted with a "factory" jetting kit. Main is still stock.

- Chartan -

2001 DRZ440S

Stjørdal, Norway

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what sleeve?

who did the cylinder work?

The Weisco comes with it's own sleeve I thought ? Bad assumption on my part :devil:

Ok you took it to a dealer,, and they want to disassembly it and "send in" the parts for measurement :lol::thumbsup: Send there where? The dealer does not have the tools to measure piston to cylinder fit? piston pin to piston fit? rod end sizes? Sound like time for a better shop :awww:

Blind parts replacement on your part is not the best way for you to find the problem,,,, if the noise is not normal,, there is an issue ,, now just to find it.. What did the shop do before declaring they were "unable" to find a problem?

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Sounds very dodgy on the dealer side. You can very easily tell if there would be any piston/valve clearance issues through simple measurement, even if its the old tried and true use of some solder wire taped to the top of the piston, which you could easily do in your own home workshop. As bronco says, they should be kitted out to perform any other measurements necessary.

Perhaps try another dealer. If it comes back to a problem with the parts, get them replaced by the supplier. If it's a problem with the cylinder machining then either the supplier if its a substitution job or whoever the first dealer sub'd the job out to. If it's a problem with the parts fitment (though this should be straight forward) then dealer #1 should fix it.

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The Weisco comes with it's own sleeve I thought ? Bad assumption on my part :thumbsup:

That's a GOOD assumption. :devil: Each Wiseco kit comes with a

piston and sleeve already matched/fitted/mated to each other.

I'd make sure they didn't get the timing or something off.

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The Weisco comes with it's own sleeve I thought ? Bad assumption on my part :thumbsup:

That's a GOOD assumption. :devil: Each Wiseco kit comes with a

piston and sleeve already matched/fitted/mated to each other.

I'd make sure they didn't get the timing or something off.

well almost.the sleeve is not yet bored/honed to the piston.which is one of the scary parts of iron liners.

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Ok. Lots of questions here.

I'll try to answer as best I can.

- Octane, I've been running 95, 98 and octane booster giving me somewhere between 101 and 103 octane. Bike still makes the same sounds.

- Boring and honing was done at a seperate firm specializing in this kind of work. They have a great reputation for boring and honing for anything from mopeds to BigBlocks and the are Wiseco dealers. I kind of think that part of the job should be ok.

- The suzuki dealer is the best I know of within less than 8 hours driving. Changing dealers is kind of hard. I'm a student and don't have a car.

- The dealer says everything is within measurements. So I guess they are equiped to check valve clearance and such. The problem, if I understod it correctly was measuring the piston-rod and crankshaft. I don't have a clue why that should be a problem? Or if the noise even comes from that part. To me it sounds more like "knocking" from the top of the engine, and mechanicaly experienced friend who have heard it guessed at valve springs, camchain or parts-fault on the piston. According to the dealer that ain't the problem.

I'm at a loss. Don't know what to do anymore :thumbsup:

- Chartan -

2001 DRZ440S

Stjørdal, Norway

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That’s what i was thinking Burned,, so I see three (at least) Critical steps, and places for huge screw ups.

Liner to Cylinder fit

Liner deck height

Piston to liner fit

Most any decent machine shop has the equipment to install a liner... but very few have the experience to do it right. Automotive and motorcycle machining is a very specialized part of general machine operations. Not every shop is fit to work on bikes.

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it sounds to me like piston noise.wiseco's in general are noisier than stock pistons.the are made with alot of taper.

if the piston to cylinder clearance is set up loose it really magnifys this.alot of machine shops like to set them up loose to avoid some mythical seizure fears. :thumbsup:

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So Should I also be expecting some more noise when I do the 450 kit?

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it will have just a touch more clatter at idle.nothing to worry about.wisecos are forged,not cast like the stock piston.they have to have a bit of taper in them as they tend expand more than cast pistons.

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The shop told me that they fit of the piston to the cilinder was so thight they had to force it in.

I suppose Burned is right. It's just the piston being more noizy. Ok, that's about the best suggestion I've had so far. Guess I'll just have them put everything together and start riding the damn thing.

Thanks to everyone for lots of good info! :thumbsup:

- Chartan -

2001 DRZ440S

Stjørdal, Norway

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The shop told me that they fit of the piston to the cilinder was so thight they had to force it in.

That's not right. You don't build an engine with an interference fit on the piston. RED FLAG! This is not a get a bigger hammer issue. If they forced it I am not surprised it is not right.

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The shop told me that they fit of the piston to the cilinder was so thight they had to force it in.

that statement is a really bad sign!

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My guess is that they did not finish the sleeve out to the piston size...or they did not file the rings to the proper gap and the ends are touching...not letting the rings compress enough...or both.

I have heard broken rings to cause a motor to knock as if the bearing were shot out of it.

At any rate...I suspect mechanic incompetance is the issue here.

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The Weisco comes with it's own sleeve I thought ? Bad assumption on my part :thumbsup:

That's a GOOD assumption. :devil: Each Wiseco kit comes with a

piston and sleeve already matched/fitted/mated to each other.

I'd make sure they didn't get the timing or something off.

well almost.the sleeve is not yet bored/honed to the piston.which is one of the scary parts of iron liners.

You know, with all that technical mumbo-jumbo they were telling me,

I was obviously confused, mistaken or both about that fact...

You guys should keep the door to my rock locked. :awww:

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Hmm. The part about forcing the piston in may just be a "figure of speech". But I talked to the dealer now, and I'll pick up the cilinder and piston from them and take it to the shop who bored it again.

I'll try talking to them to make sure they check the fitting thouroghly and also ask if they have any other suggestions. They are supposedly the main Wiseco dealer in the country so they should know (I hope).

- Chartan -

2001 DRZ440S

Stjørdal, Norway

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Hmm. The part about forcing the piston in may just be a "figure of speech". But I talked to the dealer now, and I'll pick up the cilinder and piston from them and take it to the shop who bored it again.

I'll try talking to them to make sure they check the fitting thouroghly and also ask if they have any other suggestions. They are supposedly the main Wiseco dealer in the country so they should know (I hope).

- Chartan -

2001 DRZ440S

Stjørdal, Norway

Anytime the word "force" is used in relation to motor work,, red lights and bells should be going off as a warning :devil::awww:

Ask what the piston to cylinder clearance is now, and what did they bore & Hone it to upon install

Ask what the cylinder taper is now

Look to see if the piston has any visible wear, if so,, where,, take a pic and post it if ya can

Ask what the ring gap is now, and what did they set it to.

Are there any marks in the piston dome? Say from valves impacting it?

What elevation are you at? I tried looking up your area and could not find it..

The jetting remarks you made sound,,,well,, different…. So was curious as to what your Elevation is, and what the jetting is..as well as what carb,, CV or FCR is on the bike.

Best of luck to ya

:thumbsup:

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