04 vs 05 head - did they fix the exhaust cam journal?

[SUnruh]

so for '05 did kawaski actually machine in the oil groove in the exhaust cam journal or is that still something they are forgetting?

or did suzuki design it that way? ?

[TexLaBo]

Maybe it's both. The guy that designed the oil filter cover and the internal oil screens was put in charge of the cam journals. He actually removed the oil groove from both journals, figuring the clogged screens wouldn't let any oil up there anyway. But Kawi outsourced the head manufacturing to the cheesy valve makers, and they screwed up and left one in. ?

~Tex

RMZ-1v

[Aaron_Silidker]

So is this why my exhaust cam plain bearing is all gouged up!? Maybe this bike was not a good idea---argh.

[SUnruh]

exactly!!!

i spent 20+ minutes on the phone with WMR today.

their "re-conditioned" head has this oil groove cut in it to prevent the siezure you had. they say they have seen a LOT of them.

now for the odd thing: in a photo taken tonight of texlabo's head, his exhaust cam journal DOES have the oil groove. however, his intake journal does NOT have it. so it would seem that kawaski does one, but not both and not necessarly the same one every time. ?

[Aaron_Silidker]

Can a head that has had a cam siezure be reconditioned? Is the cam ruined? The siezure was not that bad, but it was apparent visually and I could hear a knock coming from the cam area before I took the motor apart.

[Kaptain]

I REALLY want to know if they have addressed the valve issues for '05. My whole next bike purchase decision is hanging on it.

[zook4life]

Let's try to get an official reply from Suzuki/Kawasaki. If they have done something to remedy the situation they will gladly share it with us.Maybye from the moderator of TT? ?

[SUnruh]

aaron,

yes!!!

you need to speak with www.enginedynamics.com

the blueberry bikes like to sieze the intake cams when the cam caps are over torqued. so, they have fixed quite a number of them. i would imagine they would also be able to cut in an oil groove for you as well to help prevent this problem in the future. while your head is there, maybe have them re-cut the seats for new intake valves?

[SUnruh]

here is what i'm talking about.

TexLabo's head (320 res) (640 res version)

on his, the exhaust journal is clearly machined, but the intake journal is NOT. at some point in the future, his intake cam would probably sieze due to oil starvation according to WMR. the odd thing is that WMR says they see the opposite (ie groove in intake, but NOT exhaust).

[kantoniak]

So, the groove on the exhaust side is strickly for lubrication, hence heat dissipation. Interesting.

Why would WMR see the opposite? Is there different versions out there that were part of some wild testing scheme? Kidding. But still, why the difference between Tex's and WMR's findings?

[SUnruh]

exactly!!!

now i wonder if those that have longer intake valve life have the oil groove in the intake journal?

makes ya go hmmmm?

right after you wanna punch some kawaski machinist in the nose for not doing a complete job to being with.

[SUnruh]

<FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/dopoll.php"><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="pollname" VALUE="1095356260SUnruh">

My head has an oil groove in the following cam journal

<input type="radio" name="option" value="1" />04 Intake cam journal

<input type="radio" name="option" value="2" />04 Exhaust cam journal

<input type="radio" name="option" value="3" />04 Both journals

<input type="radio" name="option" value="4" />05 Intake journal

<input type="radio" name="option" value="5" />05 Exhaust cam journal

<input type="radio" name="option" value="6" />05 Both journals

<input type="radio" name="option" value="7" />what's an oiling groove

<INPUT TYPE=Submit NAME=Submit VALUE="Submit vote" class="buttons"></form>

[MXER43]

I just talked to WMR about this and they said there must have been a misunderstanding, He confirmed to me that it is always the INTAKE side that does not come with the oiling groove. They think it may have been a CNC program error, it does'nt make sence to not provide one on both sides, extra oil can't hurt.

Bob from WMR wants to know if they can post on this fourum? He wasn't sure if companies could post, doesn't want people to think they are taking advantage of the site just trying to sell product, but they can offer a lot of usefull info. He said they would like to offer their experience and will keep it professional.

[Kaptain]

So....... what about the '05 heads?

[Bucket]

Oddly enough,,page5-20 of the manual shows a picture of the head with only the exhaust having a groove in journal.

Can one not dremel in there own grove????????

Dang! It's polls like this that make me want to rip apart my newly purchased 04. After this weekends ride I'll have to give into temptation and start the topend tear down.

Keep up the good work guys.

Buc.

[SUnruh]

sure WMR can get on here and post, but they aren't allowed to "advertise" unless they pay. pretty simple that way. naturally, TT would love to have WMR as a sponsor and definately would be a great fit for this forum with their wealth of knowledge.

[dirtmachine]

I totally agree with sunruh about WMR posting here. You guys think it's possible that suzuki and/or kawi caught the problem and fixed it on the later 04's? (ie those made in march, april of 04)

[kantoniak]

So, I looked at two yesterday and both had grooves only on the exhaust journal. Interestingly enough in speaking with my father-in-law who has a good knowledge of steel is that the valve heads on the intake side are to big and the valve stems are to small. Therefore, they cannot dissipate the heat that they are being subjected to. Specs and tolerances get in jeopardy and then things wear out. I think it was you SUnruh who posted the size of the Yamaha valves and the intakes are smaller (as well as there being three of them). He figured this is a better valve set-up and likely why they are lasting longer than the Honda and Kawi's.

I truly believe the overheating is part of the problem. Just look at the rads compared to most bikes out there. "Normal" rads have a crossover at both the top and bottom of the rads. The Kawi has only one at the top. With an inefficient water pump impeller, low RPM's turning it (idiling at the start or low RPM off-roading), and loosing any small amount of coolant, will cause the lack of coolant being transfered over to the left rad. End result, over heating and undue stress on all other components.

If.....a big if, I go with an 05 I will still do a rad mod and go with an aftermarket water pump and impeller.

I wish I didn't love the handling and power characteristics of this bike so much.

[Kaptain]

I would still like to know if they have fixed the INTAKE valve side of things for '05. As well as the exhaust

[Aaron_Silidker]

I had a nice long talk with Bob at WMR today, can't wait untill they post, they have some interesting theorys and parts coming out....