17 wheels or Stock???

[Darrick_Lucchesi]

This is one of the most asked questions from somebody just starting out and no you do not need 17 wheels at least not yet!!! You ask why not start out with 17 wheels? I recommend if you own an off road bike go buy a set of dual sport tires go to you local track and give Supermoto a try. There are many reasons for this. First it will save you a lot of money and you will find it actually a lot easier to learn as you will already be used to the way you bike handles and turns. Start out slowly and remember smooth is fast. You will be surprised at how good you can go. Most races have a sportsman class for such bikes and it usually is one of the most competitive and fun classes. If you are an Exp. level rider than yes 17 are the way to go. After a few practice days and maybe a race or two and you are hooked on Supermoto then go buy yourself a set of 17 wheels and the learning curve will not be so steep. Now you ask why are 17 better? Before we get into that try a sportsman bike. ?

Darrick Lucchesi

[chomp]

Hi Derrick,

what about suspension set-up wise? How much difference does it make if you have a MX re-valve suspension vs a motard re-valve set-up?

I did your Supermoto class sometime back in Stockton. You gave me a number for a suspension guy in Salinas. I kind of misplace it, could you give me the number again?

thanks

[kawidual]

Thanks for advice Derrick. Glad you & Doug are going to be around to help us out.

Hope to come down for the school one of these days & learn even more.!! ?

What tires do you recommend for my stock 21 & 18" rims?

Getting a second set of stock rims for street mainly & some track days.

I have a set of Cheng Shin Barracudas to try for now. 130/90/18 - 90/90/21

Whats the widest you see sportsman guys running, is wider better in your opinion..?

Keeping the fat 140/80/18 & 90/90/21 I have now for dirt.

[Linco]

I agree 100%, hey, I've been passed many times by fast guys on stock wheels with stock brakes. The sportmoto class in our series has some of the best racing of all the classes!

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[Chris_DRZ]

kawidual- I use Avon Gripsters on my DRZ and run the Sportsman class here in the NE. I think the tires are great. The bike is street legal so I use the Gripsters on the street and in trails too. No complaints.

As far as size I was wondering the same as you...should I get a wider rear tire? I run a 120 on the back which is the stock tire width but I can get wider. My bike is stock so I'm not exactly lighting up the rear down the straights but I wonder if a wider tire would help in the turns. One of the main tracks we ride on has concrete patches in the corners and I do spin it up leaned over on the concrete. I'm wondering if a 130 would help with traction when leaned over.

[cat0020]

I'm just beginning to put my XR650R motard bike on the track. Went to my first TrackDay in the Pocono this month. I don't have the skills to slid out the rear wheel completely, yet. But I can tell you that the wider front 17" wheel made a big difference in how well my XR can turn and brake.

Still on the smaller size front brake rotor, but I can feel the need for larger rotor to provide more braking, I don't know if the added weight of the larger rotor would make much of a difference.

I still have the 18" rear wheel with a 150/60-18 rear street tire on. There isn't much wider tire available for 18" size rear wheel, and even with wider tire, you would still need wider rear rim to make the rear tire hold its wide profile, putting a 160 rear tire on a 3" wide rear rim, you woun't have the full 160 contact patch as on a 4 1/2" or 5" rear rim with the same tire.

For now, I feel the 18" rear wheel serves me just fine.

I am looking into larger front rotor.

[MWDRZ]

Chris and kawidual- IMO a wider rear tire will make the bike handle worse and you will loose contact patch and traction. Notice all the guys with 17"s go for a wider rim, but stick with a 160 tire generally. The wider rim will spread out the contact patch of the tire, making it bigger.

If you go with a narrower rear tire, say a 110 or 100 it will actually give you a bigger contact patch by speading the tire out.

Also with the wider tire on a narrow rim, the tire profile will be pinched, making the edges of the tire so steep, you won't be able to use them.

It is probably worth reading the tire manu's recommended rim sizes for the tire, since the manu's build their tires differently and size them differently.

I went from a 120 Trail Wing to a 100 Trail Wing on my DRZ with the stock wheels and the 100 offered better traction and lighter handling.

BTW Chris is smoking fast on his bone stock DRZ. ?

Mike

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[Chris_DRZ]

BTW Chris is smoking fast on his bone stock DRZ. ?

Thanks for the compliment Mike!

Good point about putting a wider tire on a skinny rim. I can see how you'd wind up rounding out the tire more and loosing contact patch. I didn't consider that. ?

[kawidual]

Thanks Mike, I remember us talking about this before on the DRZ list. I know

the manufacture recomends certain sizes for rims, but Ive had great traction on

the dirt & street on my rear metz karoo 140/80/18. I see what your saying about

a fat tire on a small rim. If you say you get better traction on the 100 vs the 120

I believe you when talking about pavement since you have tried both.

Going to throw the barracudas I have on next week & see how I like them.

They were pretty cheap, $100 for both, I know the gripster is more costly,

but probably a better tire.

Thanks.

[ron421]

I rode my first supermoto on stock wheels and it was definatly the way to go. I learned how to ride on the pavement with the set up I had and it payed off. I was able to learn how how to ride fast and eventually won the 250 novice class in no time. I rode with 17 in the beginning as well and beleive it or not I was much slower and ended up on the ground most of the time. Not to mention how cheap it was to start out with a stock set up rather than buying wheels and tires. Eventually i had to graduate to the 17 wheels and now im able to take full advantage of the 17 inch wheels.(boy was the sportsman class a lot of fun) ?

[HondaXR650R]

...buy a set of dual sport tires go to you local track and give Supermoto a try...

Hi :worthy:Darrick, ?

New to the sport here... OK, I bought a set of Pirelli Scorpions (95%street/5%dirt) for my stock rims, but the rear tire looks really skinny. ? My XR650R came stock with a 110/100-18 rear tire, so I ordered a 120/80-18. Before I mount it, do you recommend that I use it, or return it and order the wider 140/80-18? ? I checked and it would fit. ?

My question: "Is wider better? And, why?" Thanks for your help. ?

-Ben

[Darrick_Lucchesi]

For your stock wheels I would not go any wider then you 120 any wider and you will not have as much grip, the tires profile will be wrong. Wider is better only if you have the right size rim for the size tire. Use the tires that you have and use them up!! ?

[Astroman]

But is it a supermoto with 21/19-18 rims? Seems like the deffinition of dualsport to me.Forexample i know a lot of people ride their Dulasport (enduro there) on the street but they dont call them supermoto. I know a lot of guys who are really fast witht he stock wheels but a supermoto will be always a Dirtbike with 17inch rims.. ?

[k1211]

I recently purchased a yz426 from a fellow tt member and wanted to set it up for SM and get into some novice class racing...I think Darrick gives some good advice and my wallet likes it too! ? going that route, what brand/model/size tires would be most effective if I am running stock 21/19's on the 426? any other sportsman set-up info would be helpful ?.

cheers,

-Tom

This is one of the most asked questions from somebody just starting out and no you do not need 17 wheels at least not yet!!! You ask why not start out with 17 wheels? I recommend if you own an off road bike go buy a set of dual sport tires go to you local track and give Supermoto a try. There are many reasons for this. First it will save you a lot of money and you will find it actually a lot easier to learn as you will already be used to the way you bike handles and turns. Start out slowly and remember smooth is fast. You will be surprised at how good you can go. Most races have a sportsman class for such bikes and it usually is one of the most competitive and fun classes. If you are an Exp. level rider than yes 17 are the way to go. After a few practice days and maybe a race or two and you are hooked on Supermoto then go buy yourself a set of 17 wheels and the learning curve will not be so steep. Now you ask why are 17 better? Before we get into that try a sportsman bike. ?

Darrick Lucchesi ?

[jamesp]

Here's a dumb question....

These 17 inch wheels are smaller (even with tire difference) so do you do anything to limit suspension travel with the 17s? Seems like the frame would drag the ground if you bottom out. Enlighten me please ?

[HondaXR650R]

:worthy:Thank you Darrick! ?

The Pirelli Scorpions are totally AWESOME!!! ?

[HondaXR650R]

Dirt bikes with dualsport tires (like mine) are "Sportsman Class" aka. "SportMoto" bikes, a very fun and highly competitive class! ?

[jazzeyb]

Darrik,

?

I have 4 kids ranging 3 - 11 yrs old. What's that have to do w/ my '99 XR650L? Everything. It means I can't afford 17"s for now... ?

I ride street only on my xr. I have stock rims, and have been running avon AM21 roadrunners (AM20 on front..90/90/21). I have been running 120/90/18 on the rear. I have been using Metzler tubes as my inserts, since obviously I can't run a radial. (I can't on stock rims.. right, or wouldn't want to convert?)

Anywho....

I don't really know sizes and their performance values yet.

I do know that when I am leaning into tight corners, I feel I don't have enough rear rubber on the ground. So I wanted (that is, if I should...) to go wider than 120 and shorter than the 90 on my current 120/90/18's (I have to order a new tire in the next couple of days)What would you suggest Darrik, or anyone that has had experience with the Honda XR650L?

I appreciate any feedback I can get!!

Many thanks...

Here are the tire sizes I found at maw.... (I'm thinkin I kinda like the BT45 series..)

(68405) $64.95 Bridgestone BT45H 110/80H18 Rear Tire

(68404) $64.95 Bridgestone BT45H 110/90H18 Rear Tire

(68406) $66.95 Bridgestone BT45H 120/80H18 Rear Tire

(68407) $81.95 Bridgestone BT45H 130/70H18 Rear Tire

(68408) $82.95 Bridgestone BT45H 140/70H18 Rear Tire

(68409) $84.95 Bridgestone BT45H 150/70H18 Rear Tire

(71886) $78.95 Bridgestone BT45V 120/90V18 Rear Tire

(71887) $81.95 Bridgestone BT45V 130/80V18 Rear Tire

(71889) $82.95 Bridgestone BT45V 140/70V18 Rear Tire

(71888) $82.95 Bridgestone BT45V 140/80V18 Rear Tire

(22080) $25.95 Cheng Shin C907 Himax 90/90H18 Rear Tire

(05075) $36.95 Cheng Shin C907 Himax 100/90H18 Rear Tire

(22081) $32.95 Cheng Shin C907 Himax 110/90H18 Rear Tire

(22082) $43.95 Cheng Shin C907 Himax 120/80H18 Rear Tire

(22083) $47.95 Cheng Shin C907 Himax 120/90H18 Rear Tire

(22084) $49.95 Cheng Shin C907 Himax 130/80H18 Rear Tire

(22085) $48.95 Cheng Shin C907 Himax 130/90H18 Rear Tire

(22086) $53.95 Cheng Shin C907 Himax 140/90H18 Rear Tire

(42973) $86.95 Michelin Macadam M50 120/90V18 Rear Tire

(30551) $92.95 Michelin Macadam M50 130/80V18 Rear Tire

(13058) $83.95 Pirelli Sport Demon 110/90HB18 Rear Tire

(13064) $85.95 Pirelli Sport Demon 120/80HB18 Rear Tire

(13065) $91.95 Pirelli Sport Demon 120/90VB18 Rear Tire

(13076) $94.95 Pirelli Sport Demon 130/70HB18 Rear Tire

(13077) $95.95 Pirelli Sport Demon 140/70VB18 Rear Tire

(02739) $74.95 Continental TK17 120/90H18 Rear Tire

(72687) $88.95 Continental Conti-Force 160/60ZR18 Rear Tire

(79855) $75.95 Avon AM44 Distanzia 110/80S18 Rear Tire

(79856) $74.95 Avon AM44 Distanzia 120/80S18 Rear Tire

(13267) $149.95 Avon AM42 Venom 150/70H18 Rear Tire

(71181) $88.95 Avon AM18 Super Venom 110/90V18 Front/Rear

(06050) $90.95 Avon AM18 Super Venom 130/80V18 Rear Tire

(06051) $107.95 Avon AM18 Super Venom 140/70V18 Rear Tire

(12990) $76.95 Avon AM21 Roadrunner 100/90H18 Rear Tire

(12991) $86.95 Avon AM21 Roadrunner 110/90H18 Rear Tire

(12992) $92.95 Avon AM21 Roadrunner 120/90H18 Rear Tire

(02321) $127.95 Avon AM23SC 130/70VB18 Rear Tire

(20048) $53.95 Avon AM52 130/70H 18 Rear Tire

[jazzeyb]

Any help,suggestions or advice I get...

I am sincerely appreciative for..

Just wanted to add that word of thanks in there....!!!!!!

Brian

aka JaZz - Wilmington, NC

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[grmracing]

MAXXIS BABY!!! dtr-3 rear---pro-grip front or the softer dtr-1 rear. nothing tested better with us..