Two "2" Cool

[cmanno]

Has anyone seen this or other products like it, there are a bunch of race teams out there claiming lower engine temps. and that they would not race without it. ?

Click to enlarge

Two2Cool Engine Oil Treatment

- Instantly drops engine temps, 40 to 60 degrees

- Safe for all 2 and 4 stroke applications

- Dyno proven HP increases

- Contains no friction modifiers (moly, Teflon, or silicone) and is safe for all clutches

- Significantly reduces heat / wear

- Increases the life of all oil related parts

- Has no residual effects, empties out with every oil change

- Compatible with all engine oil

- Add 2 oz. per Quart of engine oil

- Saves on expensive repairs

- The best and least expensive way to cool your engine

http://pvk.cc/store/product_info.php?cPath=22_32&products_id=66

[CoreyClough]

I work at KTM Dealership, and we specialize in the 50's and 65's. We can't keep Two2Cool on the shelf. 2oz. per quart of oil, and the racers swear by it. I really need to try it in my bike. $19.95 for an 8 oz. bottle might seem like a lot, but from what I hear, it works like it says.

[kiethco]

Any of you guys wanna buy some swamp land? I have a bridge also. ?

[mythbuster]

Be sure to spit in the "2 cool" for another proven 10 degree cooler ride.

[CoreyClough]

Well I'm going to give it a try.

Francis : "You'll be sorry, Pee-Wee Herman!"

http://www.tvdance.com/peewee/

[YoungGunXR]

And back comes the Pee Wee Herman doll thing. ?

Now do you mix Two 2 cool in the oil or in the gas as they just said they use in on 65's which would mean mixing it in with gas.

[qadsan]

I'd like to know what's in it before pouring something into my bike. There's been a long history of various oil additives that have suckered people out of money for years before the FTC shut them down or forced them to change their advertising because of unsubstantiated claims. I've seen it all too often and anytime I see the words "oil additive" or "oil treatment", etc, the word "snake oil" comes to mind. A safe rule of thumb is: 'If it looks too good to be true, then it probably isn't'.

There really is a sucker born every minute and while this product 'might' offer some benefits, I'll stay on the sidelines until I get see some chemistry or science behind this product because there's likely more to this story than meets the eye.

[YoungGunXR]

Ok, who wants to be the brave on and test? Be best if you have the xronly dipstick.. Lets put this one to bed. Is it good? Or is it bad?

[qadsan]

Let's say it does lower your oil temps. What has it done to your oil's viscosity? How has it reacted with the oil's additive package? Is there anything corrosive inside this product that might slowly eat away or harden any of the seals, or certain materials or coatings, etc? Not all oils are created the same and they feature different base stocks, different additives, different levels of additives, different chemistries, etc, and does this product work just as well with all oils even though there are differences between one product and the next? How does heat affect this product? Does it start to break down at a certain temp and then become less effective or does it change into something else that breaks down the viscosity or change the oil in some way, etc. Just because you pour something into your bike and your bike performs better doesn't mean it isn't doing any long term harm. Where's the indpendant long term test data? Has the SAE reviewed this miracle product?

[CoreyClough]

I haven't tried it but I'm willing to, and I will report the findings here. 2 oz. for every quart of oil(our bikes that means 4 oz.) None goes in the gas, as it's not a premix oil. All I can say is the KTM 50's and 65's owners that race and buy parts from me, are always buying it. We seriously go thru 2-3 cases a week(most are shipped out thru the mail). Those little engines only hold 200cc's of oil. Something there must be working. It states that it doesn't bond to engine parts, and drains out with the oil.

I gots-ta know! ?

[kiethco]

And back comes the Pee Wee Herman doll thing. ?

That reminds me................ ?

[qadsan]

But how are you going to know if it works for the long term until its too late? Just getting an oil temperate from a dipstick thermometer won't tell you what's going on inside your engine, especially for the long term.

This product makes no mention of what it contains and that doesn't sit well with me. Just because a product is on the market doesn't mean its safe to use in all applications or that it will live up to it's claims. There's been all kinds of fancy spark plugs on the market that were 'guaranteed' to give you an increase in HP and there have been many oil additives that have claimed better MPG, more horsepower, cooler running, etc, most of which had claims that were later proven to be false by our government, but ton's of people bought these products through mail order, in the stores, etc. Many people swore their cars had new found power and some even claimed they could drive their cars without any engine oil and not have any damage, etc, but expert marketing can be a very powerful tool against many folks, especially those who fall prey to the placeebo effect and that's quite a few people in this world. The fact was that many auto parts dealers couldn't keep these types of products on the shelf when they first came out because they were selling like crazy! Everyone is always looking for that magic product to give them that extra something special so their cars/truck/motorcycle/etc has more power or lasts longer, etc, and if that type of product did exist, you can bet the oil companies would using it or the automotive industry would be all over it to help vehicles meet CAFE requirements, etc.

Because this product "Two 2 Cool" talks about how it doesn't contain moly, teflon or silicone, I'm going guess that it contains chlorine, which is an excellent anti wear additive, but it also has its short comings, especially with higher treat rates and higher temperatures. Chlorine was replaced by ZDDP back in the 30's, but lately there's been a host of companies bringing it back into the market for new types of oil treatments that are supposed to reduce heat, produce more power, lower wear, etc. Oil Analyzers Inc performed oxidation testing on motor oil treated with a name brand chlorinated additive and compared the results to motor oil without the chlorinated additives and they found that the oils with the chlorinated additives gels and leads to the formation of slude. The Four Ball Wear (D-4172B) tests showed the motor oils treated with chlorinated aftermarket oil additives allowed the formation of larger wear scars (0.40 mm) than untreated samples (0.36 mm) did. The testing in labratory completely contradicted the claims made by the company marketing their oil additive, but consumers bought millions of dollars of this product and they still buy it today, but the company had to change it's advertising because the FTC finally caught up with them.

As mentioned, Chlorine is an excellent extreme pressure agent and it's used in industrial lubricant applications, but chlorine is also extremely reactive (reactivity increases as temperatures climb), which makes it corrosive to engine metals and interactive with many oil components. Even though a chlorine additized product may be marketed as being non-corrosive, the fact is that the corrosion inhibitors used in such products are often a short-term fix, which leaves engines open to corrosion after the additives have lost their effectiveness and this period of time can vary depending on many factors. If the chlorine does hydrolize, then these acidic reaction products can cause serious internal engine corrosion problems, especially on ferrous and aluminum alloys.

I've spent a lot of money on our motorcycles, cars, trucks and our other toys. I just don't feel comfortable pouring in something that doesn't list its ingrediants or offer any true indpendant testing or isn't endored by the SAE, etc. Their are proven ways to get the most from our toys and there's science & testing behind them, so my choice is clear until I get more info on this product.

[mythbuster]

Best results with 2 Two Cool are when you WIPE it on the headlight and the front forks. This improves aerodynamics by an amazing 32.314157896748367823 percent. Because the engine "knows" there is less friction passing through the air, it runs with less "stress" for a cooler ride.

[kiethco]

Racers are so competitive, it's probably fear of someone having an edge thats driving sales of this product. "Joe has it, I gotta have it too if I'm gonna beat him" ?

[CoreyClough]

An employee here has recently put it in his streetbike and used it in a non-competitive way. He's noticed the temp drop on his gauge.

Go here and ask away.

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=77993

I'm still going to give it a try.

My dipstick temps are around 240-250.

[cmanno]

After talking a little bit with a guy that is picking up the line on it. He said it is widely used by Stock car racers?. He also said that he uses it in the 50 and 65 KTM's (Trans not the pre-mix) they race but did have any history of it used in a big bore thumper. He also said that you can find similar product at most Auto parts stores that claim the same results. ?

[Jeph]

.....so I can clearly not choose the cup in front of me.

.....so I can clearly not choose the cup in front of you.

.....wait 'till I get going.

?

[qadsan]

...Inconceivable!

...As you wish ?

[CoreyClough]

Stop it! I mean it!

Anybody wanna peanut?

How did it get to this.

I'm not saying I know it works, but the KTM 50's have a centrifugal clutch, and I bet that heats up the oil in the engine quite a bit, eventhough they are using Maxima MTL 75 Wt gear oil in the engine. That Two2Cool works to extend the life of the clutches, and might not make a big difference on my bike unless I'm using the clutch a lot. The people that buy it say their clutches have been lasting longer. That's the facts. Oh by the way, We had a case and a half on the shelf today, and by the end of the day, we sold out.

Get away from me you Witch!

I'm not a witch, I'm your wife!

[qadsan]

The people that buy it say their clutches have been lasting longer. That's the facts. Oh by the way, We had a case and a half on the shelf today, and by the end of the day, we sold out.

Those facts are simply testimonials, not scientific facts or controlled independant tests, etc. A product that sells out doesn't equate to a product that works in my mind. I've seen many products sell out that weren't worth a darn. Many years ago, I sold a couple different useless products as a marketing experiment at a swap meet and people fell all over themselves to buy this stuff. We had two guys on the outskirts who'd catch the buyers as they left so we could refund their money. We had people believing they were being healed by our products and they'd swear they felt tingling or less pain, more energy, etc. We had no trouble selling products that misled people, but this experiment could have been taken to the next step and been profitable at the expense of others, but it taught me some valuable lessons (i.e. buyer beware, etc).

If this oil treatment product truly has merit, I would think the company would offer more technical details in addition to independant labratory testing. Companies that sell snake oil rely heavily on testimonials and clever marketing. I'm not saying this product is definitely snake oil, but there's been a a very long history from various comapanies who have misled consumers on oil additive / treatment products. I'm just not going to put as much faith in testimonials from people I don't know as I would with a product that had some solid science and independant testing behind it.

Here's a snippet from an old consumer reports from one of several popular oil additives that millions of people purchased. Lots of people believed their engines were lasting longer, producing more power, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The manufacturer calls it "the greatest breakthrough in the history of lubrication." Indy 500 legend Al Unser appears to risk a $60,000 Dodge Viper to demonstrate its amazing claims. Prolong engine treatment, $20, is what he touts in an infomercial that has generated many reader inquiries. Pour a 12-ounce container of Prolong in with your vehicle's oil, the manufacturer says, and it bonds to the engine metal, "creating a low-friction surface one molecule thick." That yields longer engine life, better mileage, and more savings, the ads claim. The bond is supposed to last even when the oil is drained. In the infomercial, Unser and others drive along a racetrack in the Mojave Desert without oil or oil drain plugs. The same ad, broadcast nationally, pictures a woman who, thanks to Prolong, supposedly drove from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles without oil. (The reason she stopped after 4 hours, 40 minutes, and 7 seconds? She was hungry.)

We didn't test the other claims, but we did see whether Prolong would protect an engine after the oil was drained. We installed a factory-rebuilt GM 4.3-liter V6 engine into each of two Chevrolet Caprices. We broke them in with Pennzoil motor oil, changed the oil and oil filter in each car, and added Prolong to one of them. Prolong claims to work immediately. We drove more than 100 miles, then drained the oil and started driving again. After only 13 minutes and five miles, both engines failed simultaneously. "

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's lots of companies that have made these types of claims and the FTC catches up with them eventually. It's happend with Prolong, Motor Up, Duralube, Slick 50, Valvoline TM8 engine treatment, STP engine treatment, etc. I hope this product is the exception and truly does everything it claims, but I wouldn't place any bets on it.