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Synthetic motor oil & Metal vs paper filter

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A few questions:

1. What is your opinion on using Synthetic motor oil?

2. Does this effect how often to change?

3. What about metal filter versus paper?

Thanks in advance

'02 CRF450R- Stock engine

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1) i like to wait for my motor to be thoroughly broken-in before using synthetic. i prefer mobil 1 red cap.

2) yes, while breaking-in i change the oil on each outing and sometimes twice on an outing. i like castrol gtx 20w-50 red cap during break-in (first 20 changes). i change my synthetic motor oil every other ride.

3) i like using the scotts stainless filter in my 01 yz250f, 04 crf250 and 05 crf450.

other notes: each ride outing involves 4 hrs of 80-90% speed on outdoor motocross track.

i use castrol gtx 10w-40 black cap in tranny for first 10 changes (at same interval as motor oil) then swith to bel-ray 80w gear oil. the main purpose of the gtx in tranny is to flush the tranny

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I always use synthetic oil and i just box a the paper filters 30 of them to be exact for less then a dollar a filter so i just change the oil and filter regularly.

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The only reason you would have to change oil is DIRT.

Make sure you change/clean you air filter as much as possible. Carry a few extra with you.

As far as synthetic oil goes.....just use a good filter but I would still recommend changing the oil after each race weekend or after about 2 easy trail ride weekends.

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1) i like to wait for my motor to be thoroughly broken-in before using synthetic. i prefer mobil 1 red cap.

2) yes, while breaking-in i change the oil on each outing and sometimes twice on an outing. i like castrol gtx 20w-50 red cap during break-in (first 20 changes). i change my synthetic motor oil every other ride.

3) i like using the scotts stainless filter in my 01 yz250f, 04 crf250 and 05 crf450.

other notes: each ride outing involves 4 hrs of 80-90% speed on outdoor motocross track.

i use castrol gtx 10w-40 black cap in tranny for first 10 changes (at same interval as motor oil) then swith to bel-ray 80w gear oil. the main purpose of the gtx in tranny is to flush the tranny

Your break in period is 20 oil changes? I usually go through a top end by the time I get to 20 changes. I mean 20 changes is like 40 - 50 hours...your bike is broken in within 2 or 3 hours, isn't it.

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I AM A SERVICE MANAGER AT A HONDA DEALERSHIP, BUT I RIDE A KTM, ANYWAYS A STAINLESS FILTER IS A GREAT BUY, IF YOU CHANGE YOUR OIL FREQUENTLY, IT USUALLY OFSETS THE COST OF BUYING A TON OF PAPER FILTERS, AS FAR AS OIL GOES IN THE GEARBOX "DO NOT I REPEAT, DO NOT USE AUTOMOBILE OIL" THE REASON BEING IS THAT AUTO OIL HAS ADVANCED POLYMERS AND MOST HAVE MOLY IN THEM AS WELL AS A LOWER CONTENT OF PHOSPHORUS SO THEY GET GREAT MILEAGE, THE AUTO OIL ISN'T MEANT FOR THE CONSTANT MESHING OF GEARS AND A WET CLUTCH, WHICH BREAKS DOWN THE POLYMERS AND MOLY AND BUILDS UP ON CLUTCH PLATES AND BREAKS DOWN FASTER THEN EXPECTED AND EVENTUALLY CAUSES CLUTCH SLIPPAGE AND METAL TO METAL CONTACT. NOT GOOD! I'VE FOUND THAT HONDA HP TRANNY OIL OR EQUAL 2-STROKE GEAR OIL WORKS BEST, USUALLY 80WT. AS FOR THE ENGINE SIDE IT'S PERSONAL PREFERENCE, BUT I USE HP4 W/MOLY 10/40WT OR ANY SEMI OR FULL SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL.

I RECEIVED A HONDA BULLETIN SAYING THAT THE SIGHT GLASSES HAVE INCORRECT READINGS AND TO INSTEAD MEASURE THE AMOUNT, I PUT IN 700CC IN BOTH SIDES, HOPE THIS HELPS

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What are you guys "breaking in" anyway? The rings either seat or they don't. The piston will find it's structure after a heat cycle or two and that's the end of it. Slowly riding around for hours on end doesn't do anything to prolong a single engine component. Two heat cycles, change the oil and ride it like you stole it.

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dirthead coudn't be righter than that. 20 oil changes to break a bike in?? are you nuts? You're the kinda people the check the torque specs on their watch screws. The top end doesn't need more breaking in than a couple of hours/motos. As far as the tranny just make sure you don't slam the gears in for the first couple rides. If you want just take a couple of laps in a field just going thru all the gears, especially the first three. And if you ask me you don't even need synthetic oil, just make sure you change it and clean the filter often.

I had an 02 yz250f that I raced in B for two years. I broke it in in one day, changed the oil (regular yamalube)+clean the screen filter every 3-4 (you're probably all like 😢) times and I NEVER had an engine problem and never replaced a single clucth plate.

Of course the fresher your oil is the better for the bike and if you have the money and the time it's fine, but people that change the oil while they are riding I think are a little paranoid, you're not at the nationals!!

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520 Torque, I think the tranny side is only 590 cc's. i personally put in 600, but whatever. Correct me if I am wrong.

Also, I disagree with you on the tranny oil. My buddy had an 02 and he rides that bike really hard. He has been using Mobil 1 Red cap since he got his bike and has never had clutch slippage or any other problems.He changed the oil every 2 hours religiously. He got an 04 and sold teh 02 to a friend and that guy is pretty fast too. No problems there either. I have seen many independant test that confirmed that Motorcycle specific oil is not any better than auto oil. Of course the auto oil can not be the type that are energy conserving. In any case, Mobil 1 red cap works great and I would rather pay $4 a quart than the rip off Honda charges.

Okay, here goes the debate....I know I just opened up a can of worms. 😢

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ditto on antman450 comments

- 700 cc engine

- 600 cc tranny

- I use Mobil 1 red cap (15-50) and also used it on my YZ426

- paper filters take less time to change than cleaning the stainless filter

- I change oil every 2-3 rides and filter every other oil change

- break in is a couple of hours

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520TORQUE'S comments are typical of most guys that have not researched "auto oils". Everything he says is true. IF you are talking about ENERGY CONSERVING rated oil....

The NON-energy conserving (some call them "diesel oils") do NOT have the same additive package and should not cause any clutch slippage. Many of the better "auto oils" STILL do better in torture testing than "motorcycle oils". The modern high revving, high temp, small displacement car engine has more in common with our bikes than the old V8's of yesteryear.

You do NOT "need" to run synthetic oil in these bikes. Castrol 20w50, a very good off the shelf cheap oil, will work WONDERFULLY in these bikes, and at those cheap prices you can change it often. ANY of the 20w50/10w40/15w40 brand name oils will work pretty damn good.

However, synthetic does, in FACT, have a higher film strength than conventional oils, and in extreme situations, it may save some wear and tear, i.e., piston scuffing, cam journal wear, etc. Most people will never encounter this situation, but if they DO, the synthetic might prevent some additional wear. since I get my Mobil-1 "red cap" for free, I use it, I was using the Shell Rotella 5w40 before that with no issues. Either does it job very well.

Man, all of these oil threads! 😢 We need a special forum just for those!

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1) i like to wait for my motor to be thoroughly broken-in before using synthetic. i prefer mobil 1 red cap.

2) yes, while breaking-in i change the oil on each outing and sometimes twice on an outing. i like castrol gtx 20w-50 red cap during break-in (first 20 changes). i change my synthetic motor oil every other ride.

3) i like using the scotts stainless filter in my 01 yz250f, 04 crf250 and 05 crf450.

other notes: each ride outing involves 4 hrs of 80-90% speed on outdoor motocross track.

i use castrol gtx 10w-40 black cap in tranny for first 10 changes (at same interval as motor oil) then swith to bel-ray 80w gear oil. the main purpose of the gtx in tranny is to flush the tranny

Your break in period is 20 oil changes? I usually go through a top end by the time I get to 20 changes. I mean 20 changes is like 40 - 50 hours...your bike is broken in within 2 or 3 hours, isn't it.

yeah antman450,

conventional wisdom would make you think so. perhaps i prefer my bike to be "worn-in" before switching to synthetic mobil 1 vs "broken-in." ever notice in the long-term bike reviews how they redo performance numbers? the 1/4 times and speeds get better at 10,000 miles vs the original "after break-in" performance numbers.

i can feel my bike loosening up as the weeks / months go by. when i feel the bike is where i want it (to stop/slow wearing-in), i switch to synthetic mobil 1. it's just one riders' opinion.

😢

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Oh, crf250, i see what you mean. That is a long interval though.

I am usually on a new top end by my 25th oil change. Maybe I do top ends too often, but I feel the bike drop in power right around 45-50 hours, which coincides with about my 25th oil change.

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yeah antman450... so what is the happy medium? my bike has probably losened up enough to feel "good" right at the moment it's "worn-out" instead of "worn-in" eh?

many folks on the harley lists say to ride a harley 5,000 miles of "normal use" before switching to mobil 1 red cap. 5000 miles at 30 mph is 166.6 hrs or at 50 mph it's 100 hrs of "normal use." you know those (us) harley riders and their parades, they are lucky if they average 5 mph for the first 5000 miles. hahaaaaa!!!!!

😢

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If you do it the "right" way, an engine is broken in within the first 30 minutes...........at least, on a dirtbike 😢

I break my engine in on synthetic. I ride it hard. Synthetic oil, modern oils, non-energy conserving.....are NOT too "slippery" to allow proper ring seal. That is a myth.

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WELL FOR THE MOST PART EVERYONE IS RIGHT IN THIS FORUM, I WAS JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN THE THE COST FACTOR OF A STAINLESS FILTER, IF YOU HAVE THE TIME AND NOT ALOT OF MONEY THE STAINLESS IS THE WAY TO GO, BUT THE CONVIENCE OF A PAPER FILTER IS ALOT BETTER BECAUSE YOU CAN JUST DISPOSE OF IT AND PUT IN A CLEAN ONE. THE COST WILL BE A LITTLE MORE EXPENSIVE IN THE LONG HAUL THOUGH. AS FAR AS OIL GOES YOUR RIGHT SOME MOTORCYCLE OILS ARE INDEED VERY EXPENSIVE, BUT ALOT OF AUTO OILS PUT IN "FRICTION REDUCERS" IN THE OIL, JUST MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHICH ONES DO THAT'S ALL.

JUST MAKE SURE YOU PROTECT YOUR IVESTMENT WITH GOOD OIL.\

CHEERS, AND KEEP RIDING.

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