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EFI on ATV's Why not more Bikes ...yet

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I just saw a commercial that said Suzuki has a 4x4 atv w/EFI.

My Question is why do you think they have not stepped it up yet and released that technology into the Two wheeled arena?

Do you think they are fazing out there current bikes (why show all of your cards... the bikes are still selling we will simply wait for sales to slow and them wham! EFI), is it that Cannondale fell on its face before they could steal the big boys thunder? Gas Gas ? Are they going to be the ones that bring it to us from there obscure little factory?

I mean Come on Lets see some one put some real money into making easier to start,crisper off the bottom and more user friendly, ready to go in any weather motors, in terms of that perfect jetting.

Might look like a long post but once I got going I couldn't stop!

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Well, the biggest reason is that bikes don't need EFI, at least in the context of what the big bike makers are doing it for and that is to produce race winning machines and then sell them to you.

Sure, it would be nice and it will probably happen someday, but carburators work VERY well and we have alot of carb technology... the biggest driver will probably not be you or me, but EPA and other places like Cali...

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I would guess that the extra weight of the electronics to operate the fuel injection is a big reason, when it comes to utility quads who cares how heavy they are.

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I just got back from Thailand wher they have about a bazillion of those little Honda 110 step through bikes. Those things even have EFI!! I couldn't believe it, but true.

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As stated above, weight is probably the biggest issue. You are not going to run EFI w/o e-start, battery, and a decent high output charging system. That all adds weight (and complexity). If there was a big demand for it, perceived or real, we would see more bikes with EFI already. I am sure that the big 4 and KTM all noticed the "overwhelming" success of Cannondale 😢

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I have heard that the EPA was mandating EFI on off-road bikes by 2007 - 2008 year models. 😢 :cry:

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I have a lot to learn about EFI...but until they install a sensor in the exhaust and put the injector in the cylinder head at the intake valve not the throttle body then what good is it. You can't tune it, it won't tune itself, and you end up with what Harley has for EFI, junk.

This is the main reason I won't buy a Gas Gas 450.

😢 If I'm wrong, let me know, like I said I have a lot to learn on EFI. 😢

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Also consider that most of the ones you do see EFI on are lower reving machines. I have been told it is hard to EFI meter fuel to a single cylinder motor that revs to 12000 plus RPM. That and the above mentioned issues with weight and complexity is making the transition slow. Additionally I would rather trouble shoot a carb than EFI on the trail 50 miles from the truck.

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I dont think you really get any performance gains at wot with efi. you gain more from an emissions/cold start standpoint.

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There is also the issue of being easier to write off development costs over a larger quanity of units sold. ATV's outsell bikes by a wide margin. 😢

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You lose power generally with EFI because it has to be setup with some leeway jetting wise so as to not blow them up. For example my Arctic Cat Suzuki made engine is EFI, but the carb model same engine produces I forget how much but like 3-5 hp or so more because you can tune those carbs to be right on the money.

But for non racing bikes like Daul sports and Trail bikes it would be perfect.

By the way that 700 twin efi is the nicest running 2 stroke engine I have ever seen. It runs prefect from +10C to -37C never bogs or stalls and runs perfect in all conditions.

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I thout that twin efi was a four stroke. you must mean two cylinder.

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Well My GSXR1000 and every other bike made As Light as possible for the street (by the same guys that make dirt bikes) seem to have it working pretty well and down to acceptable weight and performance.

Also one more side note...

What do you think about the butterfly valve in the head pipe

on the street bikes? Could that carry over to dirt bikes?

Maybe a powerband tuned for mid to top end could also have max output at lower rpms also?

What do you think?

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I hear ya about the street side, but the 2 key components for EFI (E-start and charging system) have been there for years, so it was logical to take the next step. There is no question that EFI is better than carbs for performance. I am a little surpirsed by the comments above about the carb'ed snowmobile having a higher HP than the EFI version. I would have to assume that there are other things different besides the fuel delivery system. EFI also works a lot better than carbs for meeting emissions, which is far more important for street bikes.

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on a street bike the EFI is probably as lite as 4 carbs. I dont think that would be true on a thumper though.

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I hear ya about the street side, but the 2 key components for EFI (E-start and charging system) have been there for years, so it was logical to take the next step. There is no question that EFI is better than carbs for performance. I am a little surpirsed by the comments above about the carb'ed snowmobile having a higher HP than the EFI version. I would have to assume that there are other things different besides the fuel delivery system. EFI also works a lot better than carbs for meeting emissions, which is far more important for street bikes.

It not that EFI can't produce more ponies it can, it's just the EFI programming from the manufacturers are setup more loosely from what would be ideal setup for producing max HP. So the carb versions can be re-jetted easily to run at the exact mix for producing the most HP, where you would need to re-program the EFI.

I think that would be the case in the DB world the makers don't want more warranty claims due to programming the EFI to produce the max HP. I'll take 138 horses with EFI for the way they run over a carbed 141 horse version.

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It could easily be done if the manufacturers wanted to. Almost all street bikes today are fuel injected. The sport bikes are all fuel injected, rev to 15,000 rpm, and are easily over 60 pounds lighter then they were 10 years ago. The OEM have all figured out how to get away from the jerky throttle response of EFI and have smooth throttle control. Arctic cat snowmobiles came out with a batteryless EFI and it didn't weigh anymore than the carb. version. I think it would be great.IMHO.

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I dont think you really get any performance gains at wot with efi. you gain more from an emissions/cold start standpoint.

Definitely true, but you also gain the ability to real time adjust the mixture in the computer for altitude and humidity via O2 sensors and possibly MAF sensors... nice for trail but not necessary for track...

Also, whoever said it cannot be done... if there is a will there is a way... obviously there is no will from the mfgs... tecnically speaking they can inject much higher revving engines already...

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I would guess that the extra weight of the electronics to operate the fuel injection is a big reason, when it comes to utility quads who cares how heavy they are.

The new efi controllers for v8's will fit in the palm of your hand. And you can tune them if they are not a closed loop system (meaning they have an oxygen sensor) they just will not "tune" themselves. Even without a closed loop system they would still be great, just with an oxygen sensor they can command it richer or leaner depending upon riding conditons and enviroment.

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but with these o2 sensors and maf sensors come replacing these parts. Don't know how much it is for a bike. But for my old car, 02 sensors were a buch 50 a pop. And with MAF sensors they are like 500+, and with high revving motocross bikes, it seems like maf sensors could possibly be going all the time.

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