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best engine oil? trans oil?

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what are the best engine oil? trans oil?

is it better to use same type in both or different oils for engine and trans?

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I suggest Maxima 15W50 Extra 100% synthetic. Use Maxima 2 cycle tranny oil in your transmission. The Extra will work good also. But would be a bit more expensive.

Cher'o,

Dwight

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There's been so many posts regarding this. Many people have many different opinions and I'm sure most of them are good. After break in, I went to Mobile 1 red cap on both sides. I'm around 100 hours and so far, no problems whatsoever.

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There's been so many posts regarding this. Many people have many different opinions and I'm sure most of them are good. After break in, I went to Mobile 1 red cap on both sides. I'm around 100 hours and so far, no problems whatsoever.

Mobil Oil Co. says that they no longer recommend Mobile 1 red cap automotive oil. The formulation changed a couple years ago. They now have a specific formula for Motorcycle usage without the automotive additives that are bad for the clutch and more of the Zinc and phosphous additives that are good for a highly stressed race motorcycle engine. Just because you get by with it doesn't mean you won't have problems down the road.

Cher'o,

Dwight

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Red cap does NOT have the additives you're talking about. The additives in question require the label to read "Energy Conserving". Red cap does not have the energy conserving label. Read the following article and then tell me Mobile 1 is not recommended. I'm not mechanic, but Mobile 1 retains more viscosity than any other oil tested. Also, Mobile 1 "motorcycle" oils cost a whole lot more. That's why they want you to use them.

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.shtml

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The formulation changed a couple years ago. They now have a specific formula for Motorcycle usage without the automotive additives that are bad for the clutch and more of the Zinc and phosphous additives that are good for a highly stressed race motorcycle engine.

Dwight

so dwight, do you have the data for the moto-specific formulations?

and how does it compare with the rest of the mobil 1 family,

i.e. my VOA (virgin oil analysis) chart here:

http://losdos.dyndns.org:8080/public/motomisc5/m1-summary.jpg

or you don't have the data?

jim aka the wrooster

'01 wr250f

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once the bike is broken in...

engine: Honda HP4M

tranny: Honda Red Bottle Gear Oil

Thats what I run , HP4 20-50 in the summer and 10-40 when it cools down.

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Red cap does NOT have the additives you're talking about. The additives in question require the label to read "Energy Conserving". Red cap does not have the energy conserving label. Read the following article and then tell me Mobile 1 is not recommended. I'm not mechanic, but Mobile 1 retains more viscosity than any other oil tested. Also, Mobile 1 "motorcycle" oils cost a whole lot more. That's why they want you to use them.

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.shtml

First of all Motorcycle Consumer News isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Consistantly telling half truths and lies. I have even seen them condradict themselfs on recommendations.

Mobil Oil company says there are differences. Look at the content of Zinc and phosporus additives. And no they don't require the EC label . That is when the oil is thin enough to be considered Energy conserving. Notice only the thinnest viscocities are labeled EC. Motorcycle oils cost more because of the additive package and cost of the base lube.

No, I believe you. There is a great oil conspiracy to charge more for oil by calling it Motorcycle oil. Hummmmm........I bet Airplane oil is the same way too.

Use what you want. He asked what was best and I gave my 2 cents. Just because you get away with using a cheap oil doesn't mean he will.

He may ride faster than you.

Cher'o,

Dwight

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so dwight, do you have the data for the moto-specific formulations?

and how does it compare with the rest of the mobil 1 family,

i.e. my VOA (virgin oil analysis) chart here:

http://losdos.dyndns.org:8080/public/motomisc5/m1-summary.jpg

or you don't have the data?

jim aka the wrooster

'01 wr250f

Yes , I have seen the info. Good stuff you have there. Be sure to check out the zinc and phosporus additives. What you are also not showing is whether it is a PAO or a type III basestock. I would bet in Mobils case that the automotive is a Type III basestock and the Motorcycle is a PAO. Top rated Motorcycle racing oils are also high in Ester content. Esters are very expensive but very stable in high heat and protect well under stress. PAO's are cheaper as they are a extremely processed Petroleum product. Much better than Dino oil or Type III basestock which is Dino oil run through the cracking process 3 times. PAO's are run through 9 times. They are so molecularly changed that they can be called a true synthetic. To call a Type III lube a synthetic is pushing the definition. Mobil went to a Type III several years ago to compete with Castrol's Type III oil . Cost was the reason. PAO's cost more to produce.

Cher'o,

Dwight

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I'm running valvoline motorcycle oil in the engine and valvoline gear lube in the tranny. No problems with either and I noticed that I can stretch maintenance intervals if I have to without getting notchy shifting, etc. The oil always looks fine when I drain it too; plus for the engine oil, you can't beat 3 bucks a quart!

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once the bike is broken in...

engine: Honda HP4M

tranny: Honda Red Bottle Gear Oil

I agree with the above.

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Use what you want. He asked what was best and I gave my 2 cents. Just because you get away with using a cheap oil doesn't mean he will.

He may ride faster than you.

Cher'o,

Dwight

Man, why the bitterness? I never said anything about being a fast rider. And I didn't realize Mobile 1 was "cheap" oil. Read your manual. It states to use Honda GP1 10W-40 "or equivalent". I'm assuming "equivalent" means an oil that has similar lubricating characteristics as the Honda oil? Honda's oil was tested and compared to the Mobile 1 and didn't even come close to the viscosity break down performance of the Mobile 1.

Does oil make a difference in how fast your bike goes?

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Man, why the bitterness? I never said anything about being a fast rider. And I didn't realize Mobile 1 was "cheap" oil. Read your manual. It states to use Honda GP1 10W-40 "or equivalent". I'm assuming "equivalent" means an oil that has similar lubricating characteristics as the Honda oil? Honda's oil was tested and compared to the Mobile 1 and didn't even come close to the viscosity break down performance of the Mobile 1.

Does oil make a difference in how fast your bike goes?

Actually oil can make a difference in how fast your bike goes. Most of all it makes a difference in how long your engine will last under those circumstances.

Mobil 1 motorcycle oil is OK but Mobil 1 Red cap is an automotive oil not designed for use in your motorcycle. Believe it or not, there are enough differences to make the effort to use Motorcycle oils. Yes, compared to Motorcycle oils Mobil Red Cap is a CHEAP oil. But you might find that Motorcycle oils cheaper in the long run. If you know what I mean.

Cher'o,

Dwight

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I would bet in Mobils case that the automotive is a Type III basestock and the Motorcycle is a PAO.

Esters are very expensive but very stable in high heat and protect well under stress.

PAO's are cheaper as they are a extremely processed Petroleum product. Mobil went to a Type III several years ago to compete with Castrol's Type III oil.

PAO's cost more to produce.

dwight, i highlighted the contradictions above. and to clarify the makeup of mobil 1 past and present...

modern mobil 1 has never had a group III in it.

older mobil 1 "tri-syn" is a blend of alkylated naphthalene (group V), PAO (group IV), and ester (group V), along with an additive package. the alkylated naphthalene is for improved deposit control (better solvency).

newer mobil 1 "super-syn" is PAO and AN, along with an additive package.

esters cost more to make than PAO's.

AN's cost more to make than PAO's.

the major drawback of esters are is that they are *very* hygroscopic. this is why synthetic esters are not used in compressors (e.g., refrigeration equipment)

i would disagree that "mobil has changed their formulation to compete with castrol". i would say that mobil changed their formulation to deliver better performance at the same (or potentially lower) cost. it probably amounts to a few cents per quart. they didn't take the low road and dilute their oil with crap basestock to make money. they put their thinking cap on and built a better oil to make money. i don't see anything wrong with that.

ps

the constituents are described in general here.

jim aka the wrooster

'01 wr250f

ps

"I would bet in Mobils case that the automotive is a Type III basestock"

so you owe me one now.

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This is a great thread. I am learning so much. However, for the rest of us, isnt this whole debate really splitting hairs? Are the performance characteristics of these oils THAT different to warrant someone to change from one to the other? It seems one could fault any oil if they looked hard enough. I run Mobil 1 red cap BTW. Thanks for the great info though seriously.

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dwight, i highlighted the contradictions above. and to clarify the makeup of mobil 1 past and present...

modern mobil 1 has never had a group III in it.

older mobil 1 "tri-syn" is a blend of alkylated naphthalene (group V), PAO (group IV), and ester (group V), along with an additive package. the alkylated naphthalene is for improved deposit control (better solvency).

newer mobil 1 "super-syn" is PAO and AN, along with an additive package.

esters cost more to make than PAO's.

AN's cost more to make than PAO's.

the major drawback of esters are is that they are *very* hygroscopic. this is why synthetic esters are not used in compressors (e.g., refrigeration equipment)

i would disagree that "mobil has changed their formulation to compete with castrol". i would say that mobil changed their formulation to deliver better performance at the same (or potentially lower) cost. it probably amounts to a few cents per quart. they didn't take the low road and dilute their oil with crap basestock to make money. they put their thinking cap on and built a better oil to make money. i don't see anything wrong with that.

ps

the constituents are described in general here.

jim aka the wrooster

'01 wr250f

ps

"I would bet in Mobils case that the automotive is a Type III basestock"

so you owe me one now.

What I said has no conflict. Paos are cheaper than Esters but more expensive than Type III base lube.

I was told that Mobil one is now a Type III ( thus the tri-Syn formula ) by another oil company that I trust. I know nothing of the AN Basestock. Esters are a Group V . Now don't you agree you need to run a Motorcycle Oil and not an automotive oil ? I was also told to never use a Automotive SL rated oil in a motorcycle due to friction modifiers. You sound better educated than do most of the guys wanting to argue for a cheaper oil.

Cher'o,

Dwight

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We are running Redline superlight gear lube in the tranny and Redline 10w-40 in the engine.One clutch adjustment all season- no valve issues,no oil burning.

p.s. Redline water wetter in the coolant. Good stuff. 😢

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