Be careful what you read folks

[JustDucki]

Hello all.. I enjoy this forum and the people in it but I am getting a little concerned over some of the BullSh** recommendations made based on poor engineering. This was the result of a riding with a friend who wasted $500 on mods and noticed very little performance difference. Believe me folks most of this stuff is common sense and I would venture to say that > 50% of the stuff we are told will help power are gimmicks at best. I see links to everything from performance suspension, spark plugs, oil filters etc.. I am not saying that all of these are wrong but some of them are based on a poor understanding of engineering and fundamental science and misleading at best. While some of them are very informative, a lot of them are bunk. Having worked as a consultant to the automotive industry, I have seen a lot of gimmicks and believe me they are in the 2-wheel industry as well.

If anyone wants to see some real examples of this.. Ask any engineer (good one anyway) what a spring on a shock absorber really does!!! I worked on projects deriving constants for this and believe me it just re cocks the dampener. The only think you are changing is springrate. Of course aftermarket companies won't tell you this because $$$$$. If you want proof I would be more than happy to provide the peer reviewed publications with detailed explanations.

Again, don't be offended and some of the vets on here have sure helped me out (Burned, Bronco etc..) but a careful eye is always helpful and if it promises to make a 250 feel like a 500 for $100.. hmmm ? probably not. (e.g. Powernow)

Just be careful what you read folks and use common sense.. Less money on gimmicks is more money on beer. ?

I promised I would post this for ACERIDER.?? I think that is his TT name.

[kawidual]

So your buddy spent $500 on his DRZ and saw no performance gains?

What did he buy, did he get the advice here?

What specifically are you talking about?

There are always going to be several "snake oil" like products, but

are they being posted here or the other forums without another point of view?

I'm all for debunking/arguing crap advice & products, I'm sure most of us are. ?

[tom slick]

do you have specific examples of this bad unknoledgeable advice from this specific board?

There is very little bad advice given here that i have seen. certainly no $500 gimmicky advice. and certainly no bad advice on suspension.

[sonorawfo]

It's the modern age??. I've been riding and racing since the late 60,s!!, back then we used to fiqure stuff out for our selves!!, it was alot of work but we learned alot about the bikes. I see and work on many bikes these days where riders have seen or payed money for mod,s they've seen online??. It,s all about the money!!. I've got a friends XR650R sitting on the the stand right now who may have saved money on a D/S kit, but may pay for it with a stator, CDI failure. ?

[JustDucki]

Sorry, I did not clarify.. Don't worry he was not riding a DRZ but a 2-stroke husky (I also ride a Husky and KTM). I just surf this forum the most due to my recently acquired 400S project.

He blew a total of $500 and noticed no difference (neither did I except maybe a little more jumpy and probably not the nice torque curve he had prior).

Here were his snake charms..

Power Now

Radvalve

Progressive springs

AND some $40 plug.. whoohooo did not do squat.. I actually think it was starting to load up.

Suspension is a black art folks so do the research before blowing cash..

I also agree that this forum is great for helping us see through the scams ?

[JoeDints]

The BEST and cheapest mod someone can do to make a bike go faster and have it perform better in tough conditions is getting their own body in shape....

[KLX_RAMBO]

Yeah, Burned gave me some bad avice. That 3X3 DJ mod is a real problem. Because of that mod. I am surely going to wear-out my rev limiter. And while I'm on the topic, since that mod, I can't keep the damn front tire on the ground anymore.... and I'm wearnig out back tires faster. ?

[TRAILDUDE]

The BEST and cheapest mod someone can do to make a bike go faster and have it perform better in tough conditions is getting their own body in shape....

Well, you can just forget about that nonsense........................ ?

[Noble]

"Here were his snake charms..

Power Now

Radvalve

Progressive springs

AND some $40 plug.. whoohooo did not do squat.. I actually think it was starting to load up."

Hmmmm. I'd have to say the problem is more with your buddy than the products he bought.

Anybody that knows me knows I am a skeptic. And when you really get to know me, you know I'm a terrible skeptic.

Power Now - I have one. Came with a bike I bought. I removed it. Previous owner liked it a lot (was on a 2 stroke). My skeptical opinion is a bike that is jetted right does not need it. I'll try it at some point. I may be skeptical but no point in being too thick headed not to at least try it. General opinion I get from TT is they don't do much.

Rad Valve - I bought one for my KDX years ago. I liked it a lot. Guy that invented it has many patents on reed valve parts. The patents are in use by Kawasaki and other engine manufacturers. That was years ago and I don't think the items we bought in the 80's are still needed in 2004, but I'm not going to bad mouth Rad Valve in general. It had a place and was a legitimate product in my opinion.

Progressive Springs - Nothing "snake oil" about progressive springs. They do what they do. Increase spring rate as they compress. Perfectly legitimate in the right application. Long travel forks (in my opinion) do not need progressive springs (you did not say front or rear) because forks by design already have progressive spring rate. It is the captive air chamber. Don't we all tune or forks with oil level that changes the progressive rate of the forks? Progressive springs may have more application in forks with less travel. As for rear - all "linkage" rear suspension have progressive spring rate by virtue of the linkage ratio. KTM uses a progressive rear spring to compensate for the "linkless" suspension.

$40 Spark plug - My skepticism is going to get me here. Can't think of any spark plug worth $40. However to be fair, the $10 "VX" plugs do work better and last longer than a standard $2.50 plug and my friendly local Honda store parts manager told me a few weeks ago the plugs for his new CB600F4 were $20 each. Honda actually replaced the plugs under warrantee when they fixed a valve guide seal problem. Some plugs do cost a lot, I don't know what the "hook" was for a $40 plug or maybe you exaggerate?? If I had been told 20 years a go cars would now have 100,000 mile spark plugs I would of said no way. Things do change and I do have to not let my skeptical nature prevent he from considering new ideas.

The point is, there will always be 200 MPG carburetors and $100 spark intensifiers. Most of us can see thru the scams on our own and sometimes with a little help from our friends. Sounds like your friend was a little gullible or just expected too much. Power Now works for some people some places. Rad Valves were (and may still be) good products. Progressive springs certainly have their place. $40 spark plug seems far fetched

[NateTheGreat]

I enjoy this forum and the people in it but I am getting a little concerned over some of the BullSh** recommendations made based on poor engineering

Valid concern always have to consider your source and take with grain of salt.

Are you sure you are posting this in the right section or forum? Or right website??

Now I am just curious who or where in the forum or other TT forum you or him were sold a line of BS? Because in a recent post about the Power Now a while back I think most people in the DRZ forum who actually tried one basically had the same thing to say and denounced it as a band-aid to poor jetting. ?

Power Now

Radvalve

Progressive springs

AND some $40 plug

I can imagine those wouldn't make any difference. I dont see how those add to $500 though. I think your friend just didn't do very good research. ?

I haven't seen any performance enhancing mods for the DRZ that are gimmicks being preached as the best thing since sliced bread in the forum.... What comes to mind are discussions like the following :

3x3 mod + BSR jetting

FCR mod + Differen't FCR Needles and jetting

Overbored / stroked motors

Compression ratios

Cams

Exhaust

All of those make a big difference respectively.

Just be careful what you read folks and use common sense

Good advice.

I just think you targeted your rant in the wrong place. You kinda mentioned the forum as being the one selling people a line of BS. When it seems more than anything you are agravated at advertisements and product promotions scrolling in banners at the top of the forum. ? Advertisements are there to make money. Even if they have to sucker people with pretty colors and flashy animation. Lots of Oooos and Ahhhhs.?

[rookie517]

Yeah, Burned gave me some bad avice. That 3X3 DJ mod is a real problem. Because of that mod. I am surely going to wear-out my rev limiter. And while I'm on the topic, since that mod, I can't keep the damn front tire on the ground anymore.... and I'm wearnig out back tires faster. ?

this sounds real bad... ?

[Wayward Son]

i think your a little lost.you might try to find a forum where that stuff goes on. ?

you intial post sounds alot like your bashing this forum. ?

[Railroader]

I don't believe it possible to get "bad" info from TT. The whole point of this thing is to help one another out, and learn new things. In the year I've been here, I've had nothing but good experience.....Your post belongs somewhere else.....it is not necessary here.... ? Merry Christmas......

[Squidward]

don't worry he was not riding a DRZ but a 2-stroke

Well there you have it, that was the first money he wasted. ?

[MotoChris521]

and a Husky 2 smoke at that.

[98940]

It has been my experience that upgrading the DRZ 400 with the mods suggested by

burned, bronco, et. al. has been worth the money and has improved the bike significantly.

SIDE NOTE: i haven't ridden it in about 3 weeks, and just now i took it out to top off the tank and warm the oil in preparation for winterization and oil change. it is 27 degrees outside. she fired right up, and ran so well going to the gas station.

being off the bike for a while can make me forget about how much fun it is.

i love this bike.

oh well..... until the spring......... i guess it's snowboarding time

[Erik Marquez]

Thanks for your general warning,, misguided as it is. It applies to all, yes is not relevant to this forum. Your posting implies otherwise.. But I get the idea,, it was not your intent. ?

I'd suggest posting stuff like this only in relvent threads, or forums.. As otherwise it just strikes up the.. "Who the heck are you" posts.. ?

Best intentions shine through.. So thanks ?

Now stop pissing on those that provide help to the viewers ?

?

[Danco]

Frankly motorcycles are not that complex. Engines are simple...air in air out. More air = more HP.

Other than advice on protection and other "trick" parts for the cool factor, the performance advice on here is spot on and "proven". If any mods or advice was wrong like you indicated there certainly would be more complaints like yours.

TT is one of the most friendly sites on the web. There are excellent people here who give freely with nothing to gain ie: burned, bronco and others. Take it or leave it. If I choose to spend money on my bike based on someone elses opinion I'm still responsible. If the outcome was not what I was expecting...shame on me.

Heck I sold my KTM and bought a KLX just so I can participate in the COOL forum! ?

[r0b]

Putting it away? I was in NY all last week and it was great weather. Overcast but the temps were great for dirtbiking.

In Tennessee, our season starts in late October and goes through about May. Normally we'll layout during late Jan/early Feb if the temps get really low. Last year were rode straight thru. Our dirtbikes get put away in the summer.

Get that bike out of the garage and into the woods man~!

SIDE NOTE: i haven't ridden it in about 3 weeks, and just now i took it out to top off the tank and warm the oil in preparation for winterization and oil change. it is 27 degrees outside. she fired right up, and ran so well going to the gas station.

being off the bike for a while can make me forget about how much fun it is.

i love this bike.

oh well..... until the spring......... i guess it's snowboarding time

[MVJLUVSDRZ]

Hey guys! I just heard of some mega-max,super duper, freelie wheelie, stump pullin, back flippin, new fuel additive that promises mega power and eternal engine life and it only 100 for one oz. you can get it at www.DUMBA"".com ?? Mike in Modesto