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how many studs?

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I am thinking of trying riding in the snow and ice, more trail and probably no oval track ice. Figuring 6"-8" of snow over the ground or ice. How many studs on average are needed in the front and rear tires for this type of riding.

I will be using cold cutters in a couple of old knobbies.

Thanks

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Ahhh something I know about.

Ok 1st thing to learn is that ice tires and trail tires are in totaly differant worlds. For just casual trail ridding and the ocasional jaunt onto the ice, trail tires will work fine. But if you start hanging out on the ice with the roundy round crew (circle jerkers) you will quickly realize just how bad your tires SUCK!

So lets talk about front trail tires. Any knobby will work. But for a front the tire needs to be fairly fresh. Try to find a knobbie without dished in faces on the knobs. Flat faced knobs work better. I have always used new front knobbies to stud and put in 1/2" ice screws. I always use gold screws for trail tires. They are cheeper than Kold Kutters and work very well. Kold Kutters are for ice tires. A 1/2" screw is very close to going thru the tire when it is new. If you are using used tires either use 7/16 screws, or maybe another option I have.

Here is a pict of my front trail tire with 1/2" gold screws. Its a little dirty.

front trail tire #1

Heres a picture of that other option for a front tire I was talking. If your using a used front then try 1/2 gold screws and #8 finish washers. These are those cone shaped washers that are in car interiers alot.

front tire #2

Now in that picture the fella that made this used a flat washer on top of the finish washer. I dont know if that is necessary or not. I got this idea from the CCC's trailrider magazine some time back. I guess the idea is that the washers get the studs to stick out more and penetrate the ice and snow better. You may think that the finish washers are too flimsy to survive. But the front tire dosn't get that much abuse. It is rare to see a front tire with screws pulled out.

A front tire will usually take around 250-300 screws. You may notice that I have 2 screws in most knobs. This is not really necessary. 1 stud each is more than enough for trail ridding. That 1st tire started out life as an ice tire and was re-delegated to the trails after a few seasons.

Now for the rear. A rear trail tire is going to get a hell of a lot of abuse. I helped a fella stud a tire in colorado. It didn't last 1 ride for him. he rides in a lot of rock. Michigan has mostly sandy soil so a screw studded tire lasts pretty long. BUT you have to avoid cement. That and excess wheelspin. Those are the 2 things that are going to kill a rear ice screwed tire. Use throttle control. I can usually get a winter out of a rear before I have to do any major maintance. I use 5/8 gold screws in the rear. the bigger knobs maybe 3-4 screws and the smaller ones maybe 2.

Here is my rear trail tire.

rear trail tire

This tire is actually studded a little excesivly. But like the front it started life out as an ice tire. This tire is OLD. Like 8 years maybe. It has about had it. I have all the screws removed from the middle knobs right now. I am going to replace them soon. They were thrashed. Or maybe I am gonna pick up a used tire from the dealer this week and just make a new one.

A rear tire will take around 350-450 screws. Somewere in there. a bag of 500 screws wont be enough for both fromt and rear. Get the 500 1/2 for the front and 500 5/8 for the rear. That should be enough and give you some extra's for replacments, which you will be doing.

Now here is a few photo's of my ice tires. And even though they may look mean they suck. I still cant run with my friends. There are a few fella's out there that are making PRO quality ice tires. They are pricy but worth every penny. Around $600 a pair.

Front ice tire

Rear ice tire 1

rear ice tire 2

Ice tires are to be rolled on NOTHING BUT ICE. When the bike is beeing taken on and off the ice, tire wraps are to be used to protect the screws from anything but the ice. Treat them like gold.

The front has 1/2 kold kutters and the rear has 1" kold kutters with a liner. The liner is nothing more than the appropriate sized street bike tire with the sidewalls cut off and inserted into the ice tire. That rear ice tire is a Kenda Ice Master. They are the norm for an ice tire.

So I hope some of this helps. I am far from the expert on ice tires and studding in general. But I have been doing this for about 10 years now and have learned a few things.

You want studding overkill. My Banshee that I owned years ago had 2500 gold screws in the 4 tires. That quad was on rails on the ice.

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Riding on the ice with a bunch of friends is a great way to spend cold winter days. We all bring our bikes and 4 wheelers. When someone shows up to check us out, we usually have an extra bike to let them give it a try. It doesn't take long to get hooked on this kind of riding!

Here are a couple pictures of the tires I made up last year. I have about 1200 screws in the set.(frontand rear)

http://216.129.250.90/3.JPG

http://216.129.250.90/4.JPG

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You must have to use a fairly new tire to get 5/8 in rear. I was down to the local honda shop and talked to a parts counter guy who rides on the river , he told me not to bother with 3/8 or 1/2" on the rear as he told me that they will pull right out on 450. He recommended using 1" studs (must have to have a new tire and a liner to mount them). He told me to try and get some used snowmobile studs to put between the lugs on the rear and use screws on the front.

The tires I have will probably only take a 3/8 since they are somewhat worn. so I am going to try and find some used snowmobile studs.

If I cant find the studs, I will be looking for a used streettire to line my knobbies and then use longer screws.

My luck, by the time I find what I need it will be spring.

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I just went to the locak bike shop here and they gave me a used 19" rear bridgestone. It looks like it should be plenty enough for 5/8 screws.

Doing the liner and 1" screws and snowmobile picks is a lot of work for a tire that is gonna chew the heads off the screws in 1 winter. I use 5/8 on my yz400 and it realy isn't all that bad. I loose a few here and there but not anything you can notice. It all depends on how you want to ride I guess.

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I beleive he meant if I go with screws, get longer ones and use a liner. I asked him if he lined his tire when using snowmobile studs and he said that because they draw the heads tight to the tire when tightening, it is unneceessay to line the tire.

I figured on doing one or the other (screws or sled studs). not both.

I have an old hard terrain tire from my old cr250 that I think I will try this snowmobile stud theory on. Eventually when I get it done, I will give a update. Right now the hard part will be finding used studs.

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Ok let me have it guys, I use just plain old sheet metal screws (#8?)on my ice tires. Used them on my cr 500 and kx 250. Sure I spit a few of them out but I just check the tire and replace what I can after the ride. They worked good enough to wheelie on sheer ice. When I get to leaning it over I do tend to loose more on the side and it helps me know when to go home. 😢

One trick I learned was to install them w/ a cordless scew driver. They go in slower so I don't strip the rubber w/the threads. Really seems to help them bite the tire and last longer. Never had a issue w/the front tire w/this set up. I haven't been on the ice in a year or so but I may get out this season on Duck lake near spring port. Locals sometime plow a big oval for some "racin". 😢😢😢😢🤣:D

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Ok let me have it guys, I use just plain old sheet metal screws (#8?)on my ice tires. Used them on my cr 500 and kx 250. Sure I spit a few of them out but I just check the tire and replace what I can after the ride. They worked good enough to wheelie on sheer ice. When I get to leaning it over I do tend to loose more on the side and it helps me know when to go home. 😢

One trick I learned was to install them w/ a cordless scew driver. They go in slower so I don't strip the rubber w/the threads. Really seems to help them bite the tire and last longer. Never had a issue w/the front tire w/this set up. I haven't been on the ice in a year or so but I may get out this season on Duck lake near spring port. Locals sometime plow a big oval for some "racin". 😢😢😢😢🤣:D

Ya know, sheet metal screws may work. But I would suggest that you dont ride a ice bike setup with real pro built ice tires. You will never want to ride on your sheet metal screw's tires again.

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This is all good information.....

I'm thinking about just going with 1/2" front and rear (Kold Kutters) on my WR 250. I figure about 250 front; 350 rear and will just be riding on the bay near my house with my wife (who'll be on the four-wheeler). Might take a ride or two with Ulmanb, but nothing serious.....will the 1/2" work ok?

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1/2 on a 250 will probably do the trick. I just used 5/8 on a used rear tire with no troubles.

Here is the tire I just built this week

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/CRF250X/newtire1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/CRF250X/newtire2.jpg

and my front with 1/2" gold screws

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/CRF250X/fronttrailtire.jpg

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Cool....thanks for the reply and pics. I'm going to set my bike up this week.....I'll post some pics. on photobucket afterwards. The ice is setting up fast out here with the cold weather.....I'm hoping to get my first ice ride in on or before the new the year.........can't wait!

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Here's a link I just found that may be of some interest

http://www.trailrider.com/article_23.shtml

Also, has anyone tried the new Michelin carbide studded tires yet? They tested them on the Dirt Rider site and gave them a really good review! I called the the only place I could find that carries them, and they said they will have some in two days to ship.

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VANOLR, might be a bit before I get mine studded, as I just started a big project redoing my staircase.

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Need any help? I've noticed you haven't been responding to my e-mails on riding this winter.......

My studs are in.....I've got pics......just need to get them up on Photobucket......

Need some ICE!

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I have been off work since xmas. take 3 days of vacation and get 11 off couldnt say no.

What length screws did you put in your tires?

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