2005 Honda CRF450X

[2MaNyToyS]

I was researching this new bike this evening and I read that this bike meets the CARB standards for Californiastan. ? Does this mean we can convert this bike to on road use once the Baja Designs guys, if they havent already created a kit for this bike. It is my understanding that one of the majo hangups for the conversions is the air pollution problems which this bike does not have..

[kiethco]

2Many, you've struck upon the simplicity of common sense and reason in a room full of goblins, heresay, voodoo science and SUV driving-environmentalists. Sadly, it doesnt matter that you have a clean burning carb compliant bike in the 250X. It cant be licensed in CA. Read the thread "all dualsporters must read" in this forum. Your individual vote, 35 bucks a year in membership fees in CORVA or AMA or Blue Ribbon Coalition (hopefully, all 3) can and will help. I heard a rumor from a pretty good source the CRF 400X might be Federalized. Meaning it'll have the little sticker on it so you can license it for the street. We'll see................

[Countdown]

Do you need to carry an extra piston to go on a 3-day ride with the 450X or are they going to make it a real cross country bike that goes thousands of miles without teardown?

[brrpr]

sadly ? its one of the new Hondabergs...you replace the entire head when the rear tire wears out. ?

[kiethco]

This bike is no CRF450R. It has 3 rings instead of one like the R model. The more I read about this bike the more I like it. One thing Honda doesnt do is rest on their laurels. I'm definately keeping an open mind about it.

[rockchucker22]

This bike is no CRF450R. It has 3 rings instead of one like the R model. The more I read about this bike the more I like it. One thing Honda doesnt do is rest on their laurels. I'm definately keeping an open mind about it.

That's exactly how I feel.?

[Dirtman13]

Ditto. The 450x will probably be my next bike. ?

[2MaNyToyS]

Guys, check out this thread on the 450x. Sounds to me like Honda is building it just for the guy who doesnt MX race.

http://www.hondanews.com/CatID7000?mid=2005011933336&mime=asc

[Dirtman13]

This is a pretty good artical too.

http://www.motorsports-network.com/honda/2005mc/crf450X.htm

[StuartV]

Well, there's a load of Marketing hype for you!

Wouldn't you rather have a bike that has just as much power, is 18 pounds lighter, is not a first-year model with first-year teething pains, can be tagged for street use in CA, and has a load of aftermarket parts already available for it for the same money?

If your answer is yes (and what rational person's answer wouldn't be), then go buy a KTM 450EXC, or, even better a 525EXC.

If you don't think you can get one with a tag in CA, go over to KTMTalk and do some searching on threads in the last day. I read earlier today a post from a dealer in CA who guarantees he can provide you a legit CA tag with a new KTM purchased from him. And there's plenty of other info there about getting a tag yourself.

Now, I'm not just saying all this because I have a KTM. Actually, I just *bought* a KTM because of all these reasons. And let me elaborate a bit more what I think is the most important point I already mentioned.

Honda claims the "dry" weight of the 450X is 255#. They claim that the dry weight of the XR650R is 277. So, the 450X is only 22 pounds lighter than a 650R?!

In contrast, Cycle World magazine weighed the '04 KTM 450 EXC and the '04 XR650R last year and the KTM was 40 pounds lighter than the 650R. Doing the math... mmm, carry the 1 .... mmm .... the KTM is 18 pounds lighter than the 450X! KTM publishes their bike weights as ready to ride, with an empty gas tank. And they say the 450 (and 525) weigh 249 pounds. A figure borne out by magazines who have actually weighed them.

Honda doesn't say what "dry" means, but very common speculation is that "dry" means no oil, coolant, fork oil, grease, gas or battery. Which would explain why their dry weight that is still 6 pounds heavier than the KTM's published weight, works out to 18 pounds heavier, when they're both ready to ride.

Finally, comparing MSRP's, the KTM 450 lists for $300 more than the Honda, and the 525 is another $200 on top of that. But in real life, I'd bet you can get a KTM 450 for less than the Honda, and some shops sell the 525 for the same or even less than the 450 'cause they're not as popular (another thing I don't understand).

ps. Keithco, one of the articles linked to right up there says that the 450X shares piston and rings with the 450R. Are you sure the X has 2 more rings than the R?

[brrpr]

For $6990 you can buy the CRF450X. A first year bike, that comes one year after the problem plagued release of the CRF250X. If it is a Unicam engine with Ti valves...think long and hard about buying this bike.

3 ring piston? SO what. Its still an engine with .7 quarts of oil. Its still a bike that cant be re-wired for more than 55 watts of power. Wanna run GPS, extra lights, and heated grips? You cant. Its still a super stiff frame thats gonna fatigue any off road rider. Why do you think Scott Summers runs XR650 forks on his CRF450? Cause its a harsh ride on that MX frame!

Why buy the last to market MX based 450X? Its for sure heavier than the others. It for sure has inferior components. All Hondas do. DID rims? no thanks...i have had to many of them crack at the seems...

So why would anyone buy a first year bike, especially when its a heavier, less value, un-proven new line of bikes that have very circumspect valves. Cant be adapted well to dual sport, oil has to be checked twie a day, etc. etc. etc. Los of reasons NOT to buy it.

The Husqvarna is lighter, more power, cheaper, wins all the shoot outs, and in its 4th year of production has the bugs worked out....and it costs the same as the 450X! The KTM is right there with it. The Yamaha--well its not as good a value -- but for sure its got its kinks worked out. I think anyone buying a first year bike like this one is just blindly following Honda marketing and brand loyalty. Problem is--Honda isnt XR reliable HONDA anymore...go read the CRF250X threads about changing the valves every 4-6 months!!!

I still have my XR's-great back up bikes-but i love my new Husky-its a 21st Century dirt bike....it even has optional red shrouds!

Good luck blind Honda brand followers...take a tow rope when ya ride that 450X thing.

[2MaNyToyS]

You know, that is what I love about this forum, so many insights to the different manufactures out there and product reliability. Many of you motorcycle mechanics have probably forgotten more than I will ever know...and having had more time in the past couple of weeks to read alot of old posts on many subjects in this TT forum, I am only now begining to understand how Honda especially ( and others) have gotten away in the past couple of years from building reliable, decent motorcycles that the market will embrace, and will not require a valve job ever coupe of trips, etc..and that is a hard thing to say as I have always "ridden Red"...

Having a 2002 XR400, a 2003 400ex and a 2004 450r, and have never had an ounce of problems with them I was thinking about another newer Honda to dual sport, but I have seen the light and will weigh all of the input here very carefully. ? .

[kiethco]

I was talking to Roy (flynall) about this bike the other day. He has an unbiased opinion, He owns a YZF 250, xr 280, xr 400, KTM 525 and a bunch more. He was telling me the weight issue is balony. He has a certified scale in his shop and his 525 comes in at something like 278 pounds with half a tank of gas. He also said he'd never sell the XR's for the reasons we all love em. But the KTM is not a sophisticated XR. They come with their own problems and labor intensive maintenance schedule. I've seen Dale grenade his 450's and 525's over the past couple years. Travis at Trackside has had to do a couple rebuilds. There is XR reliability and there's everything else reliability, CRF's included. People quit buying the heavy old outdated XR's so Honda makes a more KTM like bike and everyone's sinking it before it's even hit the streets. Eric Crippa says the valve issue on the 250's has more to do with riding than engineering (shifting at wfo and hammering valves) I know guys that ride dualsport with the 250X and his quote was "the best bike I've ever owned"(mainjet on TT). I talked to Jim Kehoe at Mid Cities Honda, he said 3 rings. I questioned him about the oil burning issue, he said 3 rings. Call him and ask him. I cant wait for some real world testing. All this typing is just speculation. The tests so far are very positive by the mags, even the ones without the double truck Honda ads. ?

[Countdown]

The dumb marketing award of the year goes to Honda for not adding an e-start the XR400 adding 50 ccs and cleaning up with a cheap non-water cooled stone reliable 450.

Perhaps we will see it from Brazil to round out their 230 line.

[StuartV]

He has a certified scale in his shop and his 525 comes in at something like 278 pounds with half a tank of gas.

Interesting. That's the first time I've ever read where somebody is claiming a modern KTM 4st weighs more than KTM's claimed weight. Assuming we're talking about an '03 or later 525 EXC, KTM claims 249 ready to ride, with an empty tank. You are claiming an extra 29 pounds, with only 1/2 a tank of gas to account for it.

How big a tank is on the bike? If it's got 1.5 gal. of gas in it, then that's what 10 pounds?

19 still unaccounted for. Has he added ANYthing to the bike?

Barkbusters?

Different bars?

Steering damper?

Shark fin?

Aftermarket chain guide?

Dual-sport lights, etc?

Tag?

Fender brace?

Fender bags (front or rear)?

Tools (tire irons?) stored on the bike somewhere?

GPS mount?

Aftermarket seat?

Aftermarket gas tank?

Clutch slave cylinder guard?

Bash plate?

Radiator guards/braces?

Any good subset of that could account for 19 pounds more than the manufacturer claims. Especially if there's more gas in it that I speculated.

Personally, I won't believe the weight issue between a 450X and a KTM 450/525 EXC is "baloney" until I see two COMPLETELY stock bikes, with empty gas tanks, weighed on the same scales. Either in person or printed in a reputable source. I HAVE seen Cycle World publish actual weights for a 450EXC and an XR650R and, owning a 525EXC and a XR650R myself, I believe their data which shows a 40 pound difference. And I have no reason to doubt Honda when their published specs say the 450X is 22 pounds lighter than the 650R...

[MotoChris521]

This bike is no CRF450R. It has 3 rings instead of one like the R model. The more I read about this bike the more I like it. One thing Honda doesnt do is rest on their laurels. I'm definately keeping an open mind about it.

???? yeah , like 13 years of XR650L's ?

[2wheels]

if you have heard a tuned crf 450 on a supermoto track you know

[kiethco]

Weigh your bike and get back to me. I'm interested in seeing how accurate the reports are. I want to know the weight of your bike, and how it compares to the manufacturers claim. Roy did just that. Maybe he'll pop in here and shed some light on the subject. I'm not working for Honda. I just hear how the 02 and previous model year KTM's arent quite the good ones, or had a motor problem. Suddenly, they got good? What about the poor guys that bought 01's?

I'm just saying all these bikes will be more work than an XR anything. or even the CRF Brazillian stuff. The weight isnt as much as an issue as reliability and durability. I think thie 450X will have a high degree of reliability. It's not a 250X, not a 450R.

I know this might be an inflamatory stance, but what the hell, it's Superbowl weekend, lol. ?

[EM_rider]

A friend who interacts often with Honda off-road mgmt. types told me that Honda does admit to "sort of blowing it" with the crf250x. Not that the bike is flawed, but that they misjudged the expectations of many who purchased the bike. The buyers really did think it was a replacement for the XR. But with a high performance 250 motor, XR maintenance and realiability is simply not possible. With the crf450x, they supposedly have designed the bike to better meet the expectations of the XR wash and ride crowd. Time will tell if this is indeed true, but with all the issues surrounding the crf250x, they would have to be blind to not see that something needs to be done differently on the 450x.

[brrpr]

Eric Crippa says the valve issue on the 250's has more to do with riding than engineering (shifting at wfo and hammering valves)

so Eric thinks shifting the bike causes the valves to tighten? Thats the stupidest thing i have ever read on TT.

I know guys that ride dualsport with the 250X and his quote was "the best bike I've ever owned"(mainjet on TT).

MAINJET IS THE HEAD OF HONDA OFF ROAD RACING. If you know him--a certain Mr. Miller....then you know what he and his family do for a living. Why are you misleading us by quoting a very biased (and deceiptfull) individual?

Whoever posted all this stuff is either--

1) a willing Honda co-conspiritor.

2) an un-willing Honda co-conspirator.

If you go to the CRF250X site you can read HUNDREDS of posts from guys that have had valve issues.

To date NOT ONE CRF 250X has ever finished an endurance race without completely replacing the head after 350 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THe Dakar Rally

THe BAJA 1000

THe Baja 500

Vegas to Reno

24 Hours of Glen Helen (when Team Hondas Johnny Campbell had his wife race with Dirt Rider editor Jimmy Lewis' wife on the CRF250X--and the bike died!!!!!!!!!!!!)

4 Day's AUstralia

ISDE--american rider

ALL THESE RACES HAVE HAD EVERY CRF250X ENTERED DNF WHEN THE VALVES TIGHTENED.

Dont snow job us with Honda employee BullShiite. I for one am sick and tired of Honda employees getting on here and spewing a bunch of swill.

The CRF250X is a very very very very very un-reliable and un-dependable bike.

I know. I raced one. After 330 miles it did just what everyone in the industry said it would do. It stopped running.

If its such a great bike then why is Kibblewhite, Webcam, and Pro-Circuit offering for sale replacement valves, springs and seats for the head?

Sometimes TT is lame....