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What are your thoughts on this stuff?Do you think it actually works? And do you think there are any drawbacks to using it?

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i run a rekluse clutch and in the tight stuff i've been battling overheating. the two2cool does work actually made the clutch engage smoother(not slipping just smoother) i noticed a 15 deg drop in oil temp after adding it. i've run it a couple months now and no adverse side effects,oil looks better after change than it did before. and you could probly go longer between changes but i do mine every weekend anyhow. between that and the new NPG-R coolant it should be unstopable. find out this summer :cry:

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I cringe at putting anything into my Engine but high quality motor oil. I personnaly would not touch the stuff.

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I cringe at putting anything into my Engine but high quality motor oil. I personnaly would not touch the stuff.

I also would not put anything in my bike that wasnt proven and of high quality. What makes you thin that 22cool isnt high quality?

I see that you ride a 250F. A YZ250F ridden in tight woods or by a fast B rider or above will have engine oil temps above 300F. Oil temps sometimes exceed coolant temps by as much as 150 degrees.There is no engine oil I know of that claims it will survive in these extreme temps.

Do you know what happens to an oils viscosity when temps are so high? Also most oils will foam at these temps especially when also being churned at high rpm's. This air entrainment (tiny bubbles) has the same negatve effect that cavatation does in your coolant system.

The advantages of useing two2cool are tremondous. The some are very obvious, some arent. Thanks Norman

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What are your thoughts on this stuff?Do you think it actually works? And do you think there are any drawbacks to using it?

Hutch I hate to keep refering people to Ktmtalk but if you do a search there there are hundreds of threads there with probally over 1,000 replies. All of which were unsolicited and from engine builders to MINI dads to casual riders. I can link some if you would like.

I cant remember one negative post.

I do understand ones concern with a new product. After being questioned by some engine builders/racers if 22cool would harm their engines I ran pure 22cool in a RMZ250 for en entire day, 5-6 gallons of fuel later they were believers.

The only thing 22 cool will do is make your engine last longer,make more power and make your engine oil come out much cleaner.

Any questions please feel free to ask. Norman

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What are the chemical properties of 2cool and how does it reduce temperature in the engine?

oh dude, you should know better than to try to introduce actual engineering into these threads. you can't win. temperatures are high. cavitation is happening. oil is foaming. air entrainment is omnipresent. oil can't survive these temps. these facts are indisputable -- they are right there in plain view; applying science or even a brush of scientific method is not going to help. :cry:

ps:

A YZ250F [...] will have engine oil temps above 300F. [...] There is no engine oil I know of that claims it will survive in these extreme temps.

i think we are done here. :cry:

jim aka the wrooster

'01 wr250f

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Checked the Two2cool web sight and they do not post any chemical makeup, all of their information is based on testimonial BS! All they can say is that there product doesn't contain Moly, Teflon, or Silicon. No independent testing, no ingredient information, no chemical make-up. All they can do is claim that your engine temps will decrease. Pure snake oil. Sounds like friction reducing adgents, probably chlorine or some other slippery adgent that will destroy your engine's within the year.

People, nothing is Free in this world. Its give and take. Buyer be ware.

Dont you think if there were a magical ingrediant that was good for our motors, that would really lower temperatures, that would make them frictionless, and last forever, all of the high powered Chemists at Mobil, Shell, Exxon, etc, etc, would have found it, marketed it to death, and made millions of dollars??!?!?!!?!

WAKE UP People!!!

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A fool and his money are soon parted. Such a cliche statement but there is just so much truth at so many levels.

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Wrooster, I dont have to be psychic to see a chem. engeenering degree somewhere in your background. I just love the enginer that explained to me chem engeenering 101 (you cant have dissapearing heats) for allmost an hour on the phone one time. He is now a dealer.

MNMbb01, I appreciate the free advertising. I have had over 50 hits on my site since you posted last. The question you failed to ask was the most important one. "Does it work"

To be fair you did ask "how does it work". But before I had a chance to reply you returned and tried try in making this thread into one of those "OIL THREADS" we love so much.

The facts are the reason we have been so successful is because Two2cool does exactly what we say it does. That being said I do appoligize for our site. But, just because our site isnt in order doesnt mean we dont have the info you are looking for. I am kind of confused to why you decided to bash instead of ask. WE have many testemonials from many different engine builders/racers. I allways try and give info from a customer or an engine builder before I tell of my own test..

One thing I would like to add is that all of our test info comes from digital guages mounted on the bike and thermocouples mounted in the oil and coolant itself.

Also we have new data aquisition equipment that has 13 analog inputs. It records and shows in real time lap times, split times,Rpm's, MPH, amoung many other things temps from multiple locations. On major tests we have atleast 2 thermocouples in the oil at different locations. Two thermocouples in the coolant. Thats one in the radiator and one in usually in the water jacket at the cylinder head. Do you know of anyone else that tests in this way??

Its like deja vu most of my over skeptical posts in the past were from people who are now selling my products.

I have posted this many times in the past but will add it again. I would have to be a fool to try and make someone believe I came up with something that one of the "huge oil companies" didnt know about. Plus I never said they didnt know about it. There is a reason the main componet of my product isnt manufactured on the continent.

Most over skeptical posts have allways asked the chemical makeup. I would think someone with your knowledge would be aware that alot of chemicals are really like recipes. Why would I just tell you something that cost me far more money than I spent on my residence to find out. I will tell you more about it.

You also commented on friction reducing agents in our 22cool. I would think instead of bashing something you would atleast learn a little more about it.

Since we have never talked I will do a search on your posts and see what the spirit most of them were

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Wrooster, I dont have to be psychic to see a chem. engeenering degree somewhere in your background. I just love the enginer that explained to me chem engeenering 101 (you cant have dissapearing heats) for allmost an hour on the phone one time. He is now a dealer.

very close, but not quite. i double majored in MechEng and ElecEng.

anyway, that's just paper. let's chat a bit on the subject at hand...

start off by explaining this assertion:

A YZ250F [...] will have engine oil temps above 300F. [...] There is no engine oil I know of that claims it will survive in these extreme temps.

jim aka the wrooster

'01 wr250f

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A fool and his money are soon parted. Such a cliche statement but there is just so much truth at so many levels.

7 minutes between one negative post and the next. With no other post inbetween or being prompted . Even before I could reply I receive more of the same.

I swear unless he is a friend playing a trick on me mnmbb01 is not on my payroll. Nor do I know him.

Everyone I would really like to get this thread back to where it originated. A few honest questions about two2cool. The reason I wasnt so fast to answer is because coming from me it has little value. I always give a chance for a someone using it to reply. If anyone has the life threatening need to know more about 22cools chemical makeup please give us a call. We can discuss in short what would take many hours for me to type here.

As far as how it works I will be glad to answer. Its a very long explanation especially since there is more than one reason why two2cool works. It also works in different ways as different conditions occur at different temps.

The primary way it works is as follows. It really doesnt cool your oil but keeps the heat from being made in the first place. All engine oil in its natural state repells from heat. Even during lower temps oil is repelling away at a mollecular level. As friction/heats rises the oil repells even faster. To the point when wet clutches become so hot they fizzle the oil and create a vapor barrier between the clutch and the oil itself.

Take a steel clutch plate and place it in the oven at its highest setting and it will not turn blue. Does anyone know how hot a clutch plate has to be to turn blue? Does anyone think a plate submerged in oil could even turn blue? Does anyone know how much HP each different model will loose on the dyno when the oil gets over 325f? 22cool changes the oils naturally bad characterisitc and makes it atttracted to heat. Oil treated w/22cool will actually run up hill towards heat.

Now as soon as your engine starts making heat the oil will bombard that spot and cool it. I know this sounds far too simple. keep in mind not just the clutch but every moving part in your bike is making heat. I am also fully aware the reason why someone would be skeptical. I appreciate all honest skeptisism. I can get much more technical but I prefer not to that here it takes too long.You will find in many posts on may sites that I have allways stated the only major variable you will see while using two2cool is how hot you are getting your engines oil the begin with.

When I have more time we can get into excessive heat and oil loss due to air entrainment (foaming/cavatation). Lower viscosity due to excessive heat amoung many other things. Thanks Norman

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Most everybody I know with KTM 50's uses it. All the 50 guru's PVK, THracing,50cc's Manga say use it. The clutch is about the only thing on my sons bike that hasn't broke. I was wondering about using it in my bike, didn't know if it was just for clutches or could use in engine to.

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Most everybody I know with KTM 50's [...]

a) air-cooled or water-cooled?

:cry: centrifugal clutch or automotive plate type clutch?

jim aka the wrooster

'01 wr250f

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OK, now we have the very tip of it, but you did not address the direct, on point question put to you by Wrooster regarding the "300 degree" assertion. The oil in my desert ridden YZ450 has never been anywhere near that hot, a statement I'm willing to stand by based solely on the condition of the oil when drained. After 35 years of turning wrenches, I can tell.

You say you want people to ask for info, I have a few questions:

What effect does it have on the oil's viscosity?

What effect does it have on the oil's shear resistance?

Does it weaken in any way any aspect of an oil's lubricating qualities? (of course not, how could I even ask?)

If it reduces heat by being drawn to a hot component, what exactly happens to the heat? You say the oil cools the component, but somehow the oil and the part are both cooler. Seems a little like perpetual motion, since there's no oil cooler in the system. A more efficient coolant leave the engine hotter than a less efficient one, and then looses more heat to the radiator, leaving the engine itself cooler. But in the process, the better coolant absorbs more heat than the lesser one.

If you're saying that this product causes mineral oils and compatible synthetics to mimic the attraction to heat displayed by castor oils, I've seen that, and I understand how it is a benefit to lubrication, but lower oil temps? Convince me.

:cry:

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start off by explaining this assertion:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC876

A YZ250F [...] will have engine oil temps above 300F. [...] There is no engine oil I know of that claims it will survive in these extreme temps.

Sure, I am not sure which part you are referring to so I will explain both.

As far as engine oil temps go I brazenly thought that I was one of the very few that was doing tesing or had info on how hot the oil temps were getting especially in motocross bikes. To my suprise once I started selling My product people came out of the woodwork, especially engine builders with info. All of which just reconformed my tests.

Oil temps are contigent on many things. The most obvious is riding style,riding ability, clutch useage, track conditions.

I personally can ride a RMZ250 from now to eternity and never see oil temps over 225. I can take the same bike and from being cold our 124lb A rider can make the engines oil temp 325-335 in 6 or 7 laps on an outdoor track.

A woods rider on a tight woods section or any rider above the fast B level can see oil temps above 300 f. A 50cc mini gets the hottest of all bikes. 375f is common and have seen oil temps exceed 400f on a cobra or a ktm pro senior.

All 250/450f's can have temps well above 300f and have seen them closer to 400 during certain conditions. Our testing was done as I have stated with thermocouples in the fluids themselves.

I never posted clutch temp data I have utill I had someone else post their findings. I didnt want others to jump on the wagon and give false info that just copied what I had said. I have seen many clutch temps exceed 600f. Some mini clutches we have seen over 675f. I am also working on installing a thermocouple inside of a clutch right now. When I get this completed we will have data I dont know if anyone else has.

If someone has different data disputing what I have stated by all means I would like to see it.

As far as the comment that I know of no oil that claims it will survive in these conditions. I wasnt bashing any oils. I think there are many fine engine oils out there. I do not personally know of any oil that claims to survive in these conditions. Thats an honest statement.If you name an oil I more than likely have it on the shelf. I most likely have some in a clear container for many months watching for oil seperation. I probally have done a temp test with it(without 22cool). I only give out oil temp test data to manufacturers on request.

If you are a slow old guy like me you can probally get away with using any oil. The faster you are, the more you use the clutch, the worse the conditions makes it much harder on your oil. If you are one of these guys and exceed 300 degrees then two2cool will lower your oil temps 50 to 60 degrees and depending on model and riding conditions will lower your coolant approx 1/3 of that.

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As far as the comment that I know of no oil that claims it will survive in these conditions. I wasnt bashing any oils. I think there are many fine engine oils out there. I do not personally know of any oil that claims to survive in these conditions.

you're kidding, right? we are talking about 300F.

you claim to work in the lubrication industry?

ps: you may want to get yourself a copy of ASTM D4741. testing is run at 150C, or 302F.

If you are one of these guys and exceed 300 degrees then two2cool will lower your oil temps 50 to 60 degrees and depending on model and riding conditions will lower your coolant approx 1/3 of that.

i've done a little research on TT and ktmtalk; despite being asked repeatedly for *actual temperature data* and a description of the test conditions, i've not found any instances where you've provided it. here is your opportunity.

ps:

you may want to clarify for those readers unfamilar with air-cooled engines that the "50-60 degrees" number comes from that application, not from a water cooled application.

jim aka the wrooster

'01 wr250f

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