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changing the fork springs...done to death but..

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hi, that piper performance place said that i need to have a fork service for 60 bucks and fork oil for 20 bucks, along with 45 dollars for the fork swap from stock to 0.49. He said you need lots of tools and i wouldn't be able to do it properly. I am gonna take this as a challenge. Could you guys tell me how to get the springs out of my 2004 crf450 please guys? I am mechanical and have done it easily on a buddies 1999 cr125 before. Thanks.

Chris

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He's ripping you on those prices....a fork service includes removal of the springs to do it right, hence, no extra labor just for spring swap, unless that extra $$$ is for the springs themselves.

Anyway, those forks are easy as pie to work on. The owners manual even shows you how to do it. The "special cartridge rod tool" can be imitated with a 14mm open end wrench...the special fork cap tool can be a socket (large) of the proper size...everything else is normal hand tools.

Save yourself some $$$, it's easy! I may be wrong...but I thought the 1999 had the same basic fork setup...twin chambers????

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Piper is NOT ripping you on those prices. When Cliff services a set of forks he does a complete tear down and inspection of all parts including the inner cartridge chamber. $125 for a complete fork service, including springs and oil, is actually pretty reasonable.

If all you want to do is swap springs that can be handled in about half the time as a full service but I'd recommend doing it the right way.

BTW, fork springs alone retail for $110. Piper will do the whole job for $125, I'd say that's a no brainer.

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i don't think that i am being ripped - it seems quite reasonable, but i don't think they need a service - it has very few hours on it, and people have said that i need special tools, when i blatently don't. Ii want to do it myself so i can find out how to change the oil height and stuff. I'll give it a go tonight. thanks guys.

Chris

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You can disassemble the forks without the special tools but you need to be very careful when you do so. The cartridge holding tool makes the process much easier than using a common 14mm open end wrench because the correct tool spans completely across the bottom of the fork. This really comes in handy on the disc side fork where a wrench won't lay flat. I recommend taking the tool diagram to a local machine shop or making one yourself with a piece of .080" sheet metal. Also, You will be better off going to a good local bicycle shop and pick up a adjustable pin spanner to get the fork caps off. You can use a large socket on the preload nut to get it off but that is not a great way to do it because it is hard on the preload adjuster of the cap and it messes your spring preload setting up.

Really though, I'd suggest having Cliff do the work because it's only $15 more and he knows more about suspension than anyone else in DFW. By building a report with him you will get help if you need more advanced work done in the future such as suspension valving, engine mods and repair.

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$125 service with new springs? Or are you supplying the springs for the shop to swap? If thats just a service, it seems kind of high to me, but the local shop around here hooks us up pretty good. $100 bucks gets both ends cleaned and serviced.

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Piper's fork service is $60 plus supplies. The $125 includes exchanging stock springs for .49kg.

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There'sa guy on EBay that sells the fork wrench and the holding tool. I bought the wrench for $40.00 from race tech (pretty steep), which I think is a rip. But if something can go wrong, It always seems to happen to me. The fork caps are thin so I would reccomend the wrench. I chickened out on removing the cartridge, so I'm no help there!

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Piper's fork service is $60 plus supplies. The $125 includes exchanging stock springs for .49kg.

That's what I was asking....or meaning....$125 for ALL of that is really a great deal.

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thats not a bad deal, but i still think its worth doing yourself if you have the time. i mean if you can still swap the springs for a reasonable price, then that sounds like a good deal. that way, like you said, you learn your forks inside and out, which isn't a bad thing to know.

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therapture,

I totally disagree with that 14mm open end wrench. I use a 12mm and it works fine. Using a 14mm allows too much slop and runs the risk of getting a bit of fork fluid splash in one's eye or even the dreaded skin pinch between the small space left by the 14mm. The 12mm is nice and tight. It is snug as a bug in a rug. What could be cozier?

Dude, if you have the time, do the job yourself. It is so easy. You'll be proud of yourself and save a few bucks.

A few things I have learned when doing it yourself. It takes three bottles of fork oil (Honda). Be sure to turn all the clickers to softest setting. When pulling out the inner chamber use a rag wrapped around it otherwise fluid will splash out. If you change the fork seals, use electrical tape around the top of the inner tube to avoid damaging the seals as you slide them on. When you drive the seals in, be sure to drive in the inner bushing first with the spacer ring on top of the bushing as you drive it in. Then the seal goes in real easy. Make sure the snap ring seats in the groove above the seal.

Heres a real time and damage saver. Before taking the front tire off, use a socket (21mm) to loosen the bottom rebound clicker nut. Just loosen it enough that you can avoid putting the forks in a vise later. Then once everything is back together, tighten and torque after the front wheel is back on. You can also loosen the top clamp on the forks and loosen the fork cap assembly. The O rings at both ends keep the oil from leaking.

And therapture, I was just kidding.

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therapture,

I totally disagree with that 14mm open end wrench. I use a 12mm and it works fine. Using a 14mm allows too much slop and runs the risk of getting a bit of fork fluid splash in one's eye or even the dreaded skin pinch between the small space left by the 14mm.

And therapture, I was just kidding.

Hahah, it has been a bit since I did them, I actually wasn't sure which one fit, the 12 or the 14

:cry:

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sometimes it takes good money to get good service..

but piper is actually priced way better than anybody in the dfw area..and his work is far superior than anybody also..

not to bag on rapture, but he is the one who uses mobil 1 in his forks and not a real suspension oil? just a thought..

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yeah and I hear it works great, seeing how the outer fork oil is just a lubricate and does nothing in the area of compression and rebound. That's taken care of in the inner chamber area.

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ahhhh here we go again...

If you absolutely have to have fork oil in your fork, feel free to spend 25 bucks a liter for the Racetech 01. Your fork will have lots of stiction and it wont last any longer (the fluid) or anything else.

Its my educated opinion that comes from direct experience from working with the fork the lubricating properties of "fork oil" is almost zero.

I've been running ATF in both chambers for a while now and it works great. And Everyone Ive setup with the ATF agrees.

Do yourself a favor, just because you dont understand or agree with a method or procedure doesnt mean it wont, cant or doesnt work, so don't get all upity (is that a word?) and turn your nose up at it.

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Hey sir, just noticing how he(the rapture) uses mobil 1 and home made fork tools, he is a tight ass...so he has no space to tell someone their getting ripped off..anyway, isnt he a big boy..cant he defend himself?..

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Hey sir, just noticing how he(the rapture) uses mobil 1 and home made fork tools, he is a tight ass...so he has no space to tell someone their getting ripped off..anyway, isnt he a big boy..cant he defend himself?..

Oh boy..you sure got a big mouth. I never said Piper was a ripoff, it was insinuated at first and I was asking if that price included the springs, it did, so I then said Piper was a great price since he did include springs in that price. So you can now STFU in that regard since you appear to be talking out of your nether regions.

As far as tools. I don't use ANY "home-made" tools. A 12mm open end wrench works FINE as a cartridge holder, at least for someone mechanically inclined, you on the other hand, would probably break a steel ball with a rubber mallet given half a chance. The fork cap tool can indeed be a socket of the proper size and works FINE for occasional service. An electric impact is what I use to loosen the bottom bolt and also works very well.

And as far as Mobil-1 ATF in the fork outer chamber, if you think that over-priced conventional "fork oil" is any better than that, you truly are ignorant of anything related to lubrication and the actual purpose of the oil in the outer chamber. The inner chamber of the fork I still use a traditional 5w fork oil, the only reason being that ATF is not as strictly controlled as to it's viscosity, having a tolerance anywhere from 7w up to about 15w.

You sir, need to get a life. Go learn something instead of repeating useless drivel about things you obviously have no clue about. Stop proving your ignorance on a forum that you have not even contributed to other than some newbish flamage, and not even good flaming at that. :cry:

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Ha Ha. damn your easy...

bet those forks work good with oil anywhere from 7w to 15w..may as well mismatch your springs also..

but your probably one of the many over 220lb thumper talkers also..huh..

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Ha Ha. damn your easy...

bet those forks work good with oil anywhere from 7w to 15w..may as well mismatch your springs also..

but your probably one of the many over 220lb thumper talkers also..huh..

1. You're easy too...easy to tell that you are ignorant.

2. The outer chamber oil weight is not critical (with reason), since you don't know what it does. Synthetic ATF works awesome, is slicker than plain jane fork oil, and has anti-foaming additives (that's a good thing). It's an ideal hydraulic fluid (since a fork is hydraulic, maybe you missed that).

3. I am 6'3" and 200lbs, headed for 190. I WAS 245lbs but that was almost 1.5 years ago since I lost that. No big deal, it was easy to lose it once I got serious.

I bet $$$ I could smoke your ass, on and off the track :cry:

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