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I just finished the RTV Water pump repair!!! (last thread lost, didn't read replies)

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Everything went smooth with the RTV fix. I ran it for 2 seperate warm up and cool down cycles, and everything seems OK. I have 2 questions though. the first one is regarding coolant capacity. It took about 1qt of antifreeze. the book states that it should take 1.3 Qts. Is this normal, or do I still have some old fluid let in bike? I changed over to Honda's coolant b/c I wanted to have the best stuff for my water pump seals. The second question is: When I tightened the crankcase cover down, I torqued them to 7.5 ft/lbs. some of the screws tightened very abrupt and firmly, while others turned about a half a turn more after they felt tight. They almost felt like they were half stripped. Is this the way the screws feel, or did the dealer screw up the threads when they did the first water pump replacement? Thnks again as ysual!! You guys and gals are awesome!!

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The coolant capacity is fine. Check it after you have been thru a few warm up cycles. Bolts -- ah the old "I used a torque wrench". I don't want to bash torque wrenches but there is more to it than that. To start with I would not put 7.5 ft lb on 6mm case screws. That is OK for a hardened cap screws but not for standard grade (8.8) case screws. When screws feel "soft" something is going wrong. Loosen all the screws but leave a little tension on them. Now remove each screw 1 by 1 and inspect it. Look for stretched threads. Use a known good screw and lay it next to the threads of the suspect screw to measure thread pitch. If the threads don't lay in perfectly, the screw is stretched. Replace it. Now go around and snug up all the case screws. Now tighten firmly by feel. If you are not comfortable with "firm by feel" use a torque wrench that is accurate at 60 inch pounds. Tighten to 60 inch pounds (5 ft lb). If you are lucky only the screws were damaged by over-torque. If you are not so lucky, some of the aluminum threads will strip and you will have to take the case cover off again and have the damaged threads repaired with Helicoils.

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According to the shop manual the torque for those bolts are supposed to be 8 ft/lbs. (the case screws I am talking about are 8 mm heads, were you talking about the actual threads being 6 mm?) Please don't tell me that the manual is wrong, and I f***ed up my bike!! My gut tells me to leave it alone now, since it is not leaking, and if there is a problem in the future, I can take it to a shop and have it repaired.

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According to the shop manual the torque for those bolts are supposed to be 8 ft/lbs. (the case screws I am talking about are 8 mm heads, were you talking about the actual threads being 6 mm?) Please don't tell me that the manual is wrong, and I f***ed up my bike!! My gut tells me to leave it alone now, since it is not leaking, and if there is a problem in the future, I can take it to a shop and have it repaired.

Fasteners should always be described by the threaded portion,, not the head size.. ...

Yes,, the manual specs the crank case fasteners at 8 ft lb,, and at the same time in the general Tq chart,, specs a 6mm fastener at 7 or 4 ft lb depending on grade.

7 or 8 pounds should be just fine.. I do not really use a tq wrench on those type of fasteners,, but rely on feel,, with my 1/4 drive tools. Never had a problem,,, but if unsure ,, yes tq um to book spec..8 ft lb.

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bronco,

how about that feel of sponginess about 1/2 turn before it tightened up, have you felt this on the crankcase bolts ever? I thought I saw some blue threadlock on some of the bolts. Maybe when the dealer did the water pump replacement, they put on threadlock, maybe some of it stayed in the threads, and that's what I feel? Does that sound reasonable?

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Well now you bring in a new issue..That is a blind hole. If you left stuff in there, or on the threads,, it may very will be causing some issues.

Always chase the threads ..and do not use a tap....as it can undercut the meterial. Use a re-thread tool (thread repair tool.. cleans up, reforms exsisting threads,,without cutting meterial), or one designed to chase (clean) threads. Remove all the old sealent and thread locker from both the threaded part and the fastener.

If it were mine,, I would do just that,, remove those fasteners,, clean the threaded hole.. and the fasteners. Reinstall.

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I would have to respectfully disagree on 8 ft lb on a 6mm standard cap screws. My early issue official Suzuki service book simply says to tighten the cover screws securely. The Torque Table (P 8-22) says crankcase bolt 8 ft lb but I don't know what bolt it is referring to. The 6mm cam journal, head bolts, and nuts are 7 so I'm certainly not going to use 8 in the cases. The boiler plate table on P 8-24 says 4 ft lb for "conventional" bolts and 7 for hi-grade bolts. The side cover bolts are "conventional".

I don't use a torque wrench on those screws either. I know I am no where near 8 ft lb.

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OK, now you guys just made me feel like I have a knot in my stomach!! AAAGGGHHH. Well no reason to freak out now. At this point I did what I did, and there are no leaks, so I will have to assume that I am ok now, so I will leave it alone (unless there is some reason not to?). But for argument sake, lets say that next time I have to pop that cover off, I realize that the sponginess was in fact the screw almost getting stripped, so of course next time it would most definitely be fully stripped. What would be the best course of action, and how hard would it be to fix? I am thinking along the lines of helicoils, I never used them, how hard is it to use? And do you think that it would be the best way to go? Maybe if you guys give me an answer I am comfortable with, I will be able to sleep better knowing that I didn't cause massive damage to my bike! Thanks again!

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Go back and read my post again. In a perfect world threads are stronger than screws, even in aluminum. You just design to engage more threads. So before you freak out about threads in the case, check the screw for stretch. If it is stretched very much you can see it by eye. Look at the thread pitch near where the threads stop and the shank starts. To check the case threads, use a new 6mm screw and turn it in by hand. If it goes in "free running" or very little resistance, the case threads are probably fine.

Up to you if you want to leave it or look for problems now. Any time I know I have created a problem, I am compelled to find it and fix it. I remember a foot peg bolt on an old CR250M. I just kept tightening that sucker up. By the time I finally took the bolt out to look at it, it was about a 8mm 1.75 pitch. It started life as 10mm 1.25. Hmmm something seems to be wrong here. New bolt and every thing was fine.

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After you put some riding time in,pm me and let me know how well the rtv held up? I tried it and did'nt have any luck.

JSV 01 DR-Z 400e :)

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OK,

you guys sufficiently made me feel paranoid, and I can't leave well enough alone. I ordered all new bolts for the crankcase, and I will torque them to 5 ft/lbs. Does this sound like a good plan? oh, when I loosen the old bolts, should I remove and replace one at a time with the proper torque, or should I loosen them all slightly, then fully remove one at a time and replace? Or does it even matter? and does the temperature of the case/screws matter? am I better off with the engine cold @ about 32 deg. or should I warm it up slightly, which way is less apt to strip the threads? thanks guys!

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I ordered all new bolts for the crankcase---OK sounds like a good plan. I would have checked out the old bolts first but I suppose we have established they were over-torqued even if not actually damaged. Did you buy OEM Suzuki screws? And check the lengths. Should be exactly the same as original. Longer or shorter introduces a new set of problems.

And I will torque them to 5 ft/lbs.--- OK, again I prefer to tighten by feel. Plus the case threads are unknown. How about this: snug up the screws with a "T" handle wrench. Use 1 hand and use your wrist. You want to feel the screw snug up solid. Then check with your torque wrench (inch pound). I think you will find you are at 40 to 60 inch pounds. Then if you want to use that as your standard, go over the screws again with the torque wrench. The case screws really don't need to be very tight. Remember, motorcycle cases were put together with Phillips head screws for a many years. "Screwdriver" tightness worked just fine. 5 ft pounds is probably safe enough but I can feel a bolt start to go soft easier by hand than with a torque wrench.

When I loosen the old bolts, should I remove and replace one at a time with the proper torque, or should I loosen them all slightly, then fully remove one at a time and replace? Or does it even matter? --- Does not really matter but I prefer to crack them all loose first then replace 1 at a time then go over the pattern to tighten as described above.

And does the temperature of the case/screws matter? No, not at the temps you will be working at. I much prefer to work on motorcycles when I can be comfortable. I make less mistakes that way. Got a work area you can heat to 50?

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Noble,

Thanks again for the speedy responses!! I did order the OEM bolts from RonAyers.com. I feel like I should be safe than sorry. When I asked about temperature I was not talking about my body getting cold, I was asking about the temperature of the engine b/c I know that different metals expand and contract at different rates depending on the material of the metal. I wasn't sure if they were more prone to have problems one way or the other. ie. If you change spark plugs in an aluminum head, and have trouble getting them out, they say to heat up the engine a little, because the aluminum will expand faster than the spark plug, so they should come out a little easier. I was just wondering if it was the same type of situation here. (probably insignificant though) Thanks again!!

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I guess I have some pretty good news. I loosened the bolts and re-torqued them to 55 inch/lbs and they felt perfectly normal. I am guessing that the spongy feeling may have been threadlocker or something like that. I also loosened them with the same ratchet that I used the first time I took the bolts out, and they felt about the same tightness, so even at 8ft/lbs they were about the same as what the dealer did them when the bike was repaired. I think it was just false panicking, but I will still put all new bolts once I receive them from Ron Ayers.com just in case. BTW I ran it a few more miles today, and it still is bone dry. I will report back after I have a hundred or so miles on the repair.

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