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Oil Amount

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According to my calculations the tranny needs 596 cc's of oil. I put this much in and none is coming out the check bolt. Are my calculations wrong, is the check bolt placed wrong, or did I measure wrong?

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You can go higher than the 596 and let it spill through the check bolt. Once it starts to pour out, tighten the check bolt and you're good to go.

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Once it starts to pour out, tighten the check bolt and you're good to go.

That's what I do. I don't even bother to measure accurately other than adding fluid to my Billy Who.

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Put in 600cc and leave it alone. It has been public knowledge since 2002 that the checkbolt on the CRF's is off, If you go by the checkbolt you are going to have 200-300cc more than your supposed to, which is hard on gaskets therefore causing damage to your bike, put in 600cc and leave it until time to change again. :):):p

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Put in 600cc and leave it alone. It has been public knowledge since 2002 that the checkbolt on the CRF's is off, If you go by the checkbolt you are going to have 200-300cc more than your supposed to, which is hard on gaskets therefore causing damage to your bike, put in 600cc and leave it until time to change again. :):):p

Do you have a link to the public knowledge? The reason I ask is that the service manual is pretty clear about this. In the maintenance section, the manual gives an amount of oil to add after draining (670cc for the X), but then states to warm the engine for 3 minutes and check the level by adding oil till it flows out of the check bolt hole. BTW, CRF250's weren't even around in '02..........

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When the 02 450's came out guys were checking the oil just like the CR's- remove the drain bolt and pour till oil comes out.

Well, the guys weren't running the bike and then checking it which led to the kickstarter gear sticking as well as transmission problems.

They weren't putting enough oil in.

I just measure out the proper amount and don't even bother with the stupid check bolt, never have, even with my 450.

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Well, the guys weren't running the bike and then ...... They weren't putting enough oil in.

I just measure out the proper amount and don't even bother with the stupid check bolt, never have, even with my 450.

Now that makes sense. Not running before checking via the check bolt probably would lead to an under-fill problem. BTW, even though I don't go crazy with the accuracy, I add the recommended quantity on my Who?, and still end up adding some after running and removing the check bolt. Haven't bothered to check exactly how much extra...

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Just pour the oil in with a ratio right. That is what I have been doing. You guys agree? :)

I'm a "by the manual" guy, so I would still follow up with a check bolt verification. If done properly (after 3 minutes running/3 minutes cooling) this should remove any variances in drain time, internal capacities, etc.

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Just pour the oil in with a ratio right. That is what I have been doing. You guys agree? :)

Yes I do agree, they say to put in 600cc so thats what I put in and leave it alone.

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I put 720ml (honda says 690)in the topend side, and about 640 in the clutch (honda says 600) usually comes up perfect both sides, sometimes even need to add more to clutch side.

I always check the oil by the book, and use a stop watch to time 3 minutes warm up and 3 cool down.

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I'm a "by the manual" guy, so I would still follow up with a check bolt verification. If done properly (after 3 minutes running/3 minutes cooling) this should remove any variances in drain time, internal capacities, etc.

I would think that is the key to it right there and then you will rest easy.

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What you guys are missing here is that too much oil in the tranny or engine are not good things, its very hard on gaskets and on o-rings. Since 2002 when Honda came out with the 4 stroke(450), they admitted they made a mistake on the tranny check bolt and not to use it because, instead of having the recommended 600cc(in my 05 R), you will have more like 850cc, which isn't a good thing. I listened, I am still on my original clutch with around 100 hours.

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Since 2002 when Honda came out with the 4 stroke(450), they admitted they made a mistake on the tranny check bolt and not to use it because, instead of having the recommended 600cc(in my 05 R), you will have more like 850cc

Honda never said not to use the check bolt. They did clarify that you run the bike for 3 minutes and then check the oil with the check bolt.

I have never heard of anyone overfilling by using the check bolt, the problem was not enough oil.

I can tell you with confidence I used to run 750-800ml with an auto-clutch in my 450 for 2 years with no problems and if you ask in the 450 forum there's tons of other guys doing it too.

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What you guys are missing here is that too much oil in the tranny or engine are not good things, its very hard on gaskets and on o-rings. Since 2002 when Honda came out with the 4 stroke(450), they admitted they made a mistake on the tranny check bolt and not to use it because, instead of having the recommended 600cc(in my 05 R), you will have more like 850cc, which isn't a good thing. I listened, I am still on my original clutch with around 100 hours.

Not flaming here, but I find it difficult to believe that after 3 years of knowing a major design mistake, Honda would not continue to make new bikes with the same mistake. Let alone, keep printing new manuals causing people to improperly check their trans oil level. Just doesn't make sense.

1) The problem you refer to was actually causing people to underfill their transmissions.

2) I've read the Wrench write up, and I wouldn't say that Honda was saying they made a mistake. They were saying people unfamiliar with the technology were making mistakes.

3) If done right, the manual procedure is correct.

In a nut-shell, the transmission has lots cavities (much like the engine) that must be filled with oil before the oil level, as checked with the check bolt, is correct. If you just fill the trans with oil till it flows out the check bolt hole without running the engine, the cavities won't be full and you'll actually underfill (not overfill) the transmission. If you just fill with the recommended oil without checking the level via the check bolt, you're probably not off by much if any. However, to be completely correct after draining you should:

1) Add the recommended amount of oil.

2) Idle the bike for 3 minutes.

3) Cool the bike for 3 minutes.

4) Remove oil fill cap.

5) Remove oil check bolt.

6) If no oil flows out of check bolt, add oil till it does.

Then button everything back up. When done correctly, this procedure will give you the correct transmission oil level the same way that the dipstick procedure (when used properly) gives you the correct engine oil level.

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Alright guys I was just trying to help, you guys make good points in saying it doesn't make sense, becasue it doesn't. Where I learn most of this stuff is from some big-name Honda guys around here (pros), I understand it doesn't make sense, its what I've always done and had no problems, so to be honest, I really don't know, but I have heard from a few other people that the check bolt is off.

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Alright guys I was just trying to help, you guys make good points in saying it doesn't make sense, becasue it doesn't. Where I learn most of this stuff is from some big-name Honda guys around here (pros), I understand it doesn't make sense, its what I've always done and had no problems, so to be honest, I really don't know, but I have heard from a few other people that the check bolt is off.

Helping is what we're all here for, and part of helping is checking up on each others recommmendations. I'll be the first to admit when I'm shown to be wrong (it's happened a few times), so keep me honest and question anything I can't backup.

BTW, for a good check bolt discussion by a certified Honda mechanic, check out the posts by Honda_Guy in this thread.

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Jeez...what's so tough about putting oil in a bike?

I've had motorcycles since 1969....which is a butt load of oil changes...and I've never needed a stop watch to check or change my oil :)

What brand of stop watch do you recommend?

I guess I'm doing it wrong all these years

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