Suinoco Gt 100 Race gas(CAM 2)

[dirtshop22]

ANyone have any experience running sunoco gt 100 AKA CAM 2. I'm thinking about running it in my CRF450. I heard it does things to the plugs. Should i or not? ?

[Shawn_Mc]

the specific gravity of that fuel is heavier than pump gas, and its oxygentated too which would make it run a tad lean. But the evap numbers seem like they'd work fine in a motorcycle with short intake tract.

Id raise the main jet one size and give it whirl. ?

I have to ask why though...

Did you bump the compression? If not, there's really no need ?

FYI: Anyone looking for spec's on CAM2, the offical name of the fuel is GT100.

[qadsan]

Here's a link to the specs for GT100 aka CAM2.

http://www.racegas.com/fuelspecs/sunocogtunleaded.htm

VP's fuel tech data can be found at this link for comparison.

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_10_techdata.html?mgiToken=0C15B7C816BA62EEEC

From looking at the boiling points of GT100, it should offer better throttle reponse and make fine tuning easier in terms of jetting since the fuel will be more consistant than the stuff from the local pump. If Rich Rohrich from DRN happened to chime in, he could give a more accurate & expert opinion.

[BLRacing67]

I have ran CAM 2 in roadrace, dirttrack (including my CRF-450), and trail bikes a lot and love the way the fuel works, especially for the price.

Brian

[BLRacing67]

I just read the specs on the GT100. Unless they have changed "Cam-2" or make a couple of different fuels under the Cam 2 name this is not the same stuff. The Cam 2 I have used is blue/purple in color, leaded, and 108 octane.

[qadsan]

I just read the specs on the GT100. Unless they have changed "Cam-2" or make a couple of different fuels under the Cam 2 name this is not the same stuff. The Cam 2 I have used is blue/purple in color, leaded, and 108 octane.

Based on their web site, Cam2 is GT100 and its clear in color. Here's the link...

http://www.racegas.com/gt100locals/gt100localsmainASP.asp

If you look at their fuel specs, their purple juice is 110 octane, their blue juice is 112 octane and their light blue juice is 104 octane (R+M/2).

http://www.racegas.com/fuelspecs/fuelspecsmain.htm

Things do change, so its quite possible the Cam2 you used may have been different at one time.

[BLRacing67]

Looks like I had better look into that before I order another 55 gallons of "Cam 2".

Brian

[todd92]

GT100 is street legal 100 octane unleaded. CAM 2 is a variety of different octane leaded race fuel. Other than being made by Sunoco, I don't see much in common.

[qadsan]

GT100 is street legal 100 octane unleaded. CAM 2 is a variety of different octane leaded race fuel. Other than being made by Sunoco, I don't see much in common.

OK, that really really confused me ???

I seen the Sunoco web site where it said...

http://www.racegas.com/gt100locals/gt100localsmainASP.asp

"GT 100 Unleaded is available at selected locations throughout the U.S. In certain areas, GT 100 Unleaded is available under the CAM2 GTTM 100 label"

Sunoco also has a Q&A web page and they address CAM2 as...

http://www.racegas.com/qanda.asp

Where can I buy Sunoco GTTM 100 Unleaded?

GTTM 100 Unleaded is available at selected locations throughout the U.S. In certain areas, GTTM 100 Unleaded is available under the CAM2 GTTM 100 label. For a complete listing of current locations, contact Sunoco Race Fuels toll free at (800) RACE GAS (800 722-3427)

I wanted to get more info on this topic because I'm also planning to get some Sunoco to try out, so I called Sunoco and the lady I spoke with from Sunoco said CAM2 is a designation for Sunoco fuels sold at the pump where the Sunoco name cannot be used, so they use the CAM2 name instead. She said CAM2 represents GT100 unleaded fuel most of the time, but it could be used to designate one of their other 'unleaded' fuels at the pump. I asked her if CAM2 could be used to represent a leaded fuel and she said the pump fuels are usually unleaded, so it would be unlikely that CAM2 fuels would be leaded.

I have a Sunoco dealer in town, so I may stop by in a week or so and see what they have to say. I think I'll make my purchase decision based on the specs of the fuel and also make sure the color matches the specs listed on the Sunoco web site just to be safe as opposed to simply asking for CAM2.

[dirtshop22]

I also called the local Sunoco dealer. They have the GT 100, which is 100 octane, clear, and unleaded. THey said that they do not have CAM 2. So I called another local gas station called HOB'S, and they have both GT 100 and CAM 2 and she said they are different. CAM 2 is purple, 110 octane, and leaded. So, I think i'll go for the $4.50 gal CAM2.

THe other question I had was if the CAM 2 would hurt a stock engine with the 110 octane it has. I know race gas is better, but for a stock engine all that octane? Let me know.

[Rich_Rohrich]

CAM 2 is purple, 110 octane, and leaded. So, I think i'll go for the $4.50 gal CAM2.

THe other question I had was if the CAM 2 would hurt a stock engine with the 110 octane it has. I know race gas is better, but for a stock engine all that octane? Let me know.

The Sunoco/Cam2 purple 110 octane leaded fuel is designed for low peak rpm (below about 6500) engines with long heated intake runners (i.e. cars with heat crossovers). It won't perform particularly well in your CRF especially at high rpm. If you are getting it from a location that pumps it from a ground tank or a bulk container it won't be much more consistent than pump premium either, so save your money.

GT100 & GT Plus unleaded are much more appropriate fuels that are better matched to the CRFs requirements, but the same rules apply. If you have to buy it from a ground tank or an outdoor bulk storage location, save your money becuase the fuel won't have the consistency to justify the cost.

[qadsan]

Rich,

Is CAM2 just a designation that could be used for any Sunoco fuel or ???

Me ?

[Rich_Rohrich]

Rich,

Is CAM2 just a designation that could be used for any Sunoco fuel or ???

Me ?

Your guess is as good as mine. I know them as Sunoco fuels, and always thought Cam2 was just a marketing name .

This stuff from the Cam2 website is consistent with what I always heard :

The CAM2 Racing Heritage goes back 33 years to 1966 and the successful Roger Penske/Sunoco Racing program. The award winning CAM2 magnesium based chemistry in the 20W-50 formula was developed as a three-way venture between Sunoco, General Motors and Penske racing. This product was specifically formulated for small block Chevys.

Roger Penske, a renowned amateur racer, approached Sun in 1966 regarding sponsorship for his entry in the 24 hours of Daytona. Sun offered him $5,000 in sponsorship funds provided he won the race. The Penske team Corvette hit the wall during the race taking out the headlights and the radiator in the Corvette. The race team was able to round up a radiator from a Corvette in the parking lot, while the headlights were replaced with flashlights duct taped to the hood of the Corvette. Penske=s team car was able to rejoin the race and after making up the lost time, went on to win the race. Roger Penske Racing became of the most successful racing organizations in the history of racing. Their race teams competed and won in Trans Am, Can Am, CART Championship (Indy Cars) and NASCAR. Roger Penske Racing continues today to be a dominant racing force in NASCAR and CART. Roger Penske Racing won at Indy on three occasions with Roger Mears and Bobby Unser during the affiliation with CAM2.

CAM2 entered the Ado-it-yourself@ oil market industry in 1975 with the brand CAM2. It was naturally anticipated that CAM2 would become the Sponsor for Roger Penske in CART, which is Indy racing. CAM2 was also a Major Sponsor in IHRA (International Hot Rod Association) and NHRA (National Hot Rod Association) in Drag Racing. CAM2 won National Titles in Funny Cars and Top Fuel with Raymond Beadle and Don Athe snake@ Prudome, who were the dominant drivers in these classes. CAM2 was very heavily involved in all forms of grass roots racing at local tracks across the U.S. including NASCAR Modifieds, D.I.R.T., Sprint Cars, IHRA, NHRA, etc., etc. CAM2 was also very heavily involved in motorcycle racing; flat tracks, hill climbs and the NHRA and IHRA events to name a few. CAM2 continues to provide sponsorship at the grass roots level in all types of racing today.

[Shawn_Mc]

About 15 years ago, Circle Track Magazine (back when it was a better mag in my view) did a fuel test under the supervision of Smokey Unick. The tested a bunch of different fuels, 15 or so. They had two test mules both were 355ci chevy's basically outfitted for IMCA. One was a 12.5:1 with a flat tappet cam, blah blah blah...and the other was a 9.5:1 version of the first.

They ended up making the most horse power on a Sunoco unleaded fuel (I wish I could remember which). I wish I still had that issue...it was pretty dog ear'd way back then...

[Rich_Rohrich]

I wish I still had that issue...it was pretty dog ear'd way back then...

Shawn, it ran in the Feb, March & April 1994 issues. Great three part article.?

[Shawn_Mc]

Shawn, it ran in the Feb, March & April 1994 issues. Great three part article.?

Now Rich, I gotta ask...did you look that up or did you know it? ?

I remember the piece more clearly now, after being reminded it was a three parter...

So what gives...you got a Dooy decimal system going in that brain of yours? ?

[qadsan]

...So what gives...you got a Dooy decimal system going in that brain of yours?

??

His brain must be running on something different than Microsoft's OS ?

Rich, you're a one of a kind amazing dude. Thanks for always sharing the goods and helping us out ?

[Rich_Rohrich]

Now Rich, I gotta ask...did you look that up or did you know it? ?

I remembered the year but I thought it was December as the first installment. I guess December stuck in my head because the Feb issue was in our hands around Christmas, who knows. ? So much crap is published in magazines the memorable stuff sort of stands out and sticks in your brain. ?

[BLRacing67]

I find it interesting that you say that the CAM 2 purple 110 octane will not work particularly well in a CRF at higher RPMs. I have ran it in Roadrace bikes (14,000 rpm), dirttrackers (including my CRF) and trail bikes with very good results. Also, I have found that the leaded fuels are easier on valve trains- seats/guides-than unleaded fuels, especially in the older motors. Any truth to any of this, or is it all in my head?

Brian

[Rich_Rohrich]

I find it interesting that you say that the CAM 2 purple 110 octane will not work particularly well in a CRF at higher RPMs. I have ran it in Roadrace bikes (14,000 rpm), dirttrackers (including my CRF) and trail bikes with very good results.

The 90% and end point temps of the purple 110 are way too high for this application. There isn't enough time, or heat in these engines to get the last 10-15% of the fuel to vaporize. It's just blowing through the engine and making deposits down stream of the exhaust valve. The higher the peak rpm the worse it gets.

Also, I have found that the leaded fuels are easier on valve trains- seats/guides-than unleaded fuels, especially in the older motors. Any truth to any of this, or is it all in my head?

Brian

I've found no evidence to support the "lead is good" claim on high rpm late model japanese engines, and I've been through a lot of them. ?

I have found plenty of evidence to make me avoid heavily leaded fuels if a better option is available.