why are there no American made dirtbikes?

[Cumminsman76]

The original Delorians were foriegn made. The "new" ones are made in Texas. And I believe I saw on a show the other day that the Delorian was a design rejected by Bricklin. And has anyone here mentioned Saleen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lorean_DMC-12

http://www.delorean.com/

[Davet916]

So, we design it ourselves using the best of the best ideas and features, have the parts made elsewhere with our own quality-control people there, and assemble it here. No unions to mess it up. People are paid by production and incentives are given for refinement ideas and streamlining. Quality goes up, production goes up, and price stays the same. Pay increases because more products are sold in a given time period. Builders win, buyers win.

That would work as long as you weed out the ones who want to just show up for work, do a marginal job and get paid.

For some weird reason, we get looked down on for being a "company man". We need to bring back the days of doing it for the company and the company takes care of you. It used to work, what changed?

Dave

[Cumminsman76]

So, we design it ourselves using the best of the best ideas and features, have the parts made elsewhere with our own quality-control people there, and assemble it here. No unions to mess it up. People are paid by production and incentives are given for refinement ideas and streamlining. Quality goes up, production goes up, and price stays the same. Pay increases because more products are sold in a given time period. Builders win, buyers win.

That would work as long as you weed out the ones who want to just show up for work, do a marginal job and get paid.

For some weird reason, we get looked down on for being a "company man". We need to bring back the days of doing it for the company and the company takes care of you. It used to work, what changed?

Dave

Are you in construction? Or do you mean bike builder? I worked for a place with a company in China and they could not maintain the quality of steel. So the cost savings they saw moving thier plants there are probably not wworking out so well.

Have you never seen someone get fired from a job. Seems to weed out the morons.

"Company Man" probably means they see you as a overpaid employee. They think a young guy making less is better.

[Cumminsman76]

And I think John Dolorean is on the show on speed right now.

[CaptDan]

So, we design it ourselves using the best of the best ideas and features, have the parts made elsewhere with our own quality-control people there, and assemble it here.

No need to send it offshore, lots of high-quality suppliers in the U.S., especially small-run shops.

No unions to mess it up.

Not all manufacturing in the U.S. has to entail unions, plus "union" doesen't always equal poor quality/inefficiency.

People are paid by production and incentives are given for refinement ideas and streamlining. Quality goes up, production goes up, and price stays the same. Pay increases because more products are sold in a given time period. Builders win, buyers win. ?

We need to bring back the days of doing it for the company and the company takes care of you. It used to work, what changed?

Not only that, the company was good for an entire community, when the owner knew everyone's name, and whole families worked at the same shop.

The trouble is greed. Business owners used to "spread the wealth", and still have plenty. Not so today.

Did anyone track the recent Excelsior-Henderson fiasco? The company headquarters in Belle Plaine, Minnesota were positively palatial! Very, very poor use of investment capital, IMHO.

http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/fedgaz/00-01/opinion2.cfm

This appears to be an acceptable way to start a company these days.

[Cumminsman76]

No need to send it offshore, lots of high-quality suppliers in the U.S., especially small-run shops.

Thats not the problem, the same die you can get made here that cost 40K might cost 10K overseas. Even with shipping and having a local shop fix it a few times its still cheaper. Its all about the money bottom line. However as far as ATK if poeple got off thier buts and researched them they might be presently suprised. For my first bike the DRZ was better but I might consider an ATK next.

[ubu]

Reading all this, it's not saying much about our Engineering schools. I guess we have let our selves down.

Our engineering schools are fine. The problem is the students who couldn't make it in engineering transfered to the business school. It is very hard for an engineer to get anything acomplished while feeding the bureaucracy. Think of the canoe race team post.

[Jump Off]

ATK 450 EFI Perfected Not Untested ! Made in USA Check them out ! You will be surprized !! I've had Cannondales since 02' And with the Help of User / Owners on The Cannondaler.Com Forums We got them just Right. EFI Baby ! True owner Programable at home with your Lap Top or PC:applause:

[Cumminsman76]

And the option for on the fly map selection.

[Jump Off]

This is our US Made Exotic ! Mapping on the Fly is also Available ! Nice! Let's see that from any other Co. ATK, Still ahead of it's time !

[hotrodrm]

excellent american made super cars, I think I shall start designing a real american made super dirtbike, thanks for the support, anyone want to help?

[huskyfrk]

chevy cowboy, the delorean's original design was scraped and was redesigned by lotus. and the engine was a combo of a volvo, renault, & peugeot engine. the new deloreans have a stainless chassis, but the rest is all NOS parts. dated technology at best, poor performance, so-so handling for a lotus design. ?

[earthmx]

Start up money it is too expensive to get started.Cannondales downfall was rushing things into production to create cash flow.

While a lot of people say they sucked look at what came out of cannondale.

Fuel injection being used on almost every bike

Transmission and engine oil seperate.

Different head pipe location( 09 CR450)

[NoFiddyPilot]

Start up money it is too expensive to get started.Cannondales downfall was rushing things into production to create cash flow.

While a lot of people say they sucked look at what came out of cannondale.

Fuel injection being used on almost every bike

Transmission and engine oil seperate.

Different head pipe location( 09 CR450)

Cannondale's failure IMHO was a bike that was too expensive and plagued by reliability issues. If they'd stuck with their expertise in chassis building and opted for something like a KTM RFS motor in a motor traditional design, they might have survived. That's the route American Beta took and they are still here.

They had all sorts of good ideas, but they hadn't built a strong sales platform needed to take those kinds of R&D risks.

Here's a pic from the Cannondale SM challenge we did at Elk Heart Lakes Wisconsin... I liked the bike actually. But, it was super wide at pegs and the light throttle pull took a little getting used to.

[Jeekinz]

You can plate a C-dale or ATK.

[Layton]

: And when they don't want to pay outrageous wages anymore they go OVERSEAS.

True, but not really the whole story. You notice that they send the work to countries that are what we consider third world countries. That is because the workers there are darn glad to get a job.

Sure, some union demands are out of line but some of you need to go read a few history books and see what working conditions were like in factories before unions were formed. You won't like what you find.

It's my opinion that eventually you will see the foreign works start forming unions.

And last but not least; I am not a union worker but have been around long enough to see what happens at some work places with no union.

Don't ever think the business man is your friend and is going to pay you a good wage out of the kindness of his heart. They will screw you every chance they get because they didn't start companies to be good guys; they started them to make money.

[earthmx]

Cannondale's failure IMHO was a bike that was too expensive and plagued by reliability issues. If they'd stuck with their expertise in chassis building and opted for something like a KTM RFS motor in a motor traditional design, they might have survived. That's the route American Beta took and they are still here.

They had all sorts of good ideas, but they hadn't built a strong sales platform needed to take those kinds of R&D risks.

Here's a pic from the Cannondale SM challenge we did at Elk Heart Lakes Wisconsin... I liked the bike actually. But, it was super wide at pegs and the light throttle pull took a little getting used to.

I rode the 440 at LEMP,the dealer rep was out that day and asked me if i wanted to spin some laps.the electric start was nice as the other things i pointed out.

The reliability became an issue due to them rushing to productin.Cannondale was bleeding money thus the quad among other things they tried but due to the lack of start up money they couldnt do the R&D.

[atk250lq]

allright, before you guys started bashing the atk's have any of you ridden one? if you have you would not say they didn't pay attention to detail. just ao ya'll know, atk own's cannondale and bombardier. and also can-am. they do not make their own engines. but would you say that the 94 ktm's sucked? why d the pre 95 ktms use rotax engines? who does bomardier use rotax? ski-doo? rotax engines are known for their reliability and power output. and with the exception of the 97 250lq, the only fluke. they are awesome engines. ~pat

[Bruised Squid Dinner]

Holy crap, this thread is almost 4 years old!!! I don't know if this has already been posted, but I remember reading about Buell coming out with a 450 motocross bike, but it was a while ago.

[Brian500R]

because dirtbikes are a small market segment compared to riced out suv's and fwd's, and it would be incredibly hard to beat the japs at the game they have owned since the late 70's.

to the people bashing american engineering; who has a more advanced space program or more effective war machines than the u.s.?