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Forest Service again being difficult for the Black Dog! (OR)

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The Great And Powerful Oz Has Spoken...in your behalf. But I probably sounded more like a mere tax paying citizen with not much more power to rock the boat than a 3 inch wave. Let's hope the power of numbers can create a Tsunami. Good luck Tom.

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What a crusty old boob. I really feel for you bud. And I thought California was tough .......Jeeezus.

Someone is obviously a teeeny bit opposed to your ride.

Maybe od Mr Butt is kicking Ranger doug some moonshine under the table? 🙂

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So is it his neighbor and friend that has a problem? Thet sounds like a problem to me. I would show his boss the email where he is speaking for his friend and neighbor, and see what they say.

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What's going on here? I see a high view count but a low post count. Are you viewers e-mailing the Federal grouch with your view on how he should serve you and your tax dollars? Remember, even if it's another State it still affects us. Let him know and then quick post..."e-mailed him" or something like that.

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Please go here, read the email threads and react. We need your help!

http://blackdogdualsport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145

-Tom

I question the need for a permit for a Dual Sport tour if there is no Guiding (leaders or sweep riders) on forest land, there is no Outfitting (any kind of trail marking) on forest land, and there are not any Event Activities Conducted (check points etc.) on forest land. All these things clearly require permits. The last possible regulation is the group limit of 75 but the forest does not say how they count a group. One would think they are required to take a picture showing a group of greater than 75 to show as evidence in court. In my openion, there is not a group of 75 just because more than 75 citizens each purchase a self guided tour (roll chart) and follow it as individuals or in small groups of 2-4.

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Start and stop on PRIVATE ground and all you are doing is selling a MAP of routes that are already open to the PUBLIC. Why get a permit anyway. Does the store that sells maps of the area have a permit from the Forrest Circus? Maybe they only sell less than 25 of them in an un-organized fashion!

I guess if I post an ad for a GPS route that costs $50 I need a Permit???? B.S.

🙂

My reply to Mr. Jones govt. e mail:

I am a Supervisor in one of the Federal Land Management Agency's and I am appalled at the way you sound in this Response. Do you treat your customers and employees like this all the time? If so, I would be surprised if your life is a good one and your career goes anywhere but down!

Remember that the Public land we manage does not belong to us but to the PUBLIC ! If the event is to be held on open trails then why this attitude. If the event strays from open trails then it is a Law Enforcement issue at that time.

Cost recovery is a method that is used when a manager wants to discourage public use requests. It works by saying that the Agency only has enough money in the budget for the essentials and not for public use. A good ruse but not really the RIGHT thing to do in regards to the mission of the Forrest Service with issues that require attention.

Bottom line: you are in a salaried position and how ever much time it takes for you to do your job right is that much time. If it is too much for you get some help or position that is within your abilities.

P.S. Turn on spell-check

Bob Henderson

775 423 2482

Bob_Henderson@fws.gov

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Sorry to hear of the troubles. I've found all of our permit issues handled much better with a phone call or face-to-face dealing. Email allows for unintended tone to creep in; I picked up on it with both initial letters (the response to the USFS would guarantee no permit with the agencies I deal with).

We've also had less than favorable dealings with a couple USFS agencies while others have been great. One even came up with a "minimum 1 year advance permit application" and when that didn't scare us off, threatened us with Cost Recovery as well.

I'm impressed that you've previously gotten "event trail" (as we call access to trail/routes not normally open to motorized travel). This item has been a complete no-no for our areas for many years. We are now being excluded from non-numbered Forest Roads, that are open to legal vehicle traffic, for our events - because the event gives the land manager the opportunity to restrict traffic when they otherwise couldn't. These are the same roads you can take your car down, but are under the FS jurisdiction and they have not inventoried/designated those roads.

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🙂 I emailed this guy to further empathize with you considering I live and ride in the area. He is a disgrace to government workers who are suppose to be public servants (I am one myself). Hope all is well for the ride in the upcoming weeks!

Mr. Larson,

I just wanted to let you know that I feel that you have an employee with a very poor public service attitude with regards to the event permit that coincides with the Blackdog motorcycle tour. I too work for the government and by doing such we all are required to have a customer-service business approach (we serve those who employ us). Furthermore, the MHNF is a place where I have rode and have grown up, your employee, Mr. Doug Jones has made irreparable repugnance towards the Forest Service and furthermore, towards the Forest Service in Oregon's MHNF.

Thank you for listening, and I hope you try to deal with this employee accordingly for his actions towards all of us who enjoy and respect the MHNF.

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All,

For those of you that actually sent a response to MHNF Chief Ranger Mr. Larson, many thanks. This entire issue has turned into a hassle, no doubt by Mr. Jone's efforts to have us gone, but we're standing firm and can only do it with all of us as one voice.

Thanks again for your support,

-Tom Niemela

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have done as you requested Tom. My message won't win any Pulitzer prize, but my message should be clear.

Hope to be there for the ride, but may not be able to make it this year.

Bruce

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