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Any suggestions on whether or not this stuff makes a difference? I am looking into longevity with my RMZ. I need it to last for at least 3 years. My wife was not very happy with the $ I lost on going from an '04 250 to a '05 250, then to a RMZ450, so I am looking for the little things that can make differences in longevity and reliability.

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If she keeps it up the bike will last longer than her. 🙂 I have it in my bike because it can not hurt to run 10-15 degrees cooler!! 🙂

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That or Prolong. I use Prolong AFMT instead of Two Cool, but I am a rep for Prolong, heh. My bike runs as new, and the valves are still spot on. I have about 70 hours on it. Adjusted the cam chain tensioner twice, and its easy, unlike what some have to say. No problems with any part of this bike yet. Much love Suzuki's way from me. :-) I even use Prolong SP-100 spray as my chain lube on my DID O-ring. Next to no wear on the chain and NO WEAR at all on the stock sprockets. I have never had to adjust the chain since I put it on either and its been on the bike for about 62 hours. Some lubricants are really amazing for longevity.

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First thing is the RMZ450 is far bore reliable then the RMZ250. I think its the best first year attempt we have seen come along in quite a while.

How well two2cool works and whether or not you are in need of such a product is directly contigent on what oil temps you are making to begin with.

With a 125lb A rider aboard a RMZ450 we have registered temps above 335. With a 220lb rider aboard we have registered temps close to 450f.

Anyone making oil temps above 250f is a canadate for using two2cool. Anyone making oil temps above 300f is our target consumer.

Many riders (me included) never come close to oil temps this high. I have more data aquisition equipment ordered and when it comes in we will be installing it on a new 450.

If a rider is making oil temps in the low 200 range adding two2cool will still help with parts wear/consumables but it will obviously take much longer to see the results. Keep in mind somewhere out there, there is a yz400f thats rode every weekend with the original piston still in it.

We will also have some dyno info available this week. On a stock bike and then with porting, carb work and a few different pipes..

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My WR400 had the original piston in it when I bought it, it was ridden almost every weekend, and the piston was still in good shape when I put on the big bore kit a few months ago.

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What is prolong? Web site? Is it a soap/detergent based coolant?

[This is an old VOA. It may be fine for your engine. But does it lower engine oil temps 50 to 60 degrees when they are above 300f??

Whats in it:

Pour point: -27 deg. F

Viscosity @ 100 deg. C: 37.5 SUS or 3.41 cSt

Flashpoint: 108 deg. F

TBN (D2896 method): 6.73

Iron 7ppm,Chromium 7ppm,Copper 2ppm,Lead 33ppm,Aluminum 9ppm,Silicon 4ppm,Tin 13ppm,Sodium 10ppm,Magnesium 11ppm,Silver 1ppm,Nickel 5ppm,Zinc 11ppm,Calcium 1000+ppm

51.5% chlorinated parrafins

31% aromatic solvent

15.5% mineral oil

1% mineral spirits

1% calcium sulfonate

There is no other additive that will lower extremeengine operating temps like two2cool does. There is no other additive that uses our exact main ingredient

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> Any suggestions on whether or not this stuff [Two2Cool] makes a difference?

>

Two2Cool works... in the short run only.

The boiling point of Two2Cool according to the MSDS (Material

Safety Data Sheet) published (required by U.S. law) by the makers

of Two2Cool , is 375 degrees F. Regular motor oil boils around

550 degrees F.

Two2Cool works by boiling off. When anything boils (goes from a

liquid state to a gas state) it take a tremendous amount of

energy out of the system. This is called the phase-change effect.

The phase-change effect also happens when a substance goes from a

solid to a liquid.

Once any part of your bike's oiled surfaces (think the hot engine

head) reach 375 degrees F. Two2Cool boils taking heat (energy)

out of the engine. The vapors leave via the crankcase vent.

This cooling will happen until the Two2Cool is completely

evaporated.

What damage can this cause? Think of the bubbles generated in a

pot of boiling water. Would you want a bubble (void) of no

lubrication to appear between your engine's cam lobe and rocker

arm?

Besides being extremely cost prohibitive, I doubt you'll find any

professional engine builder out there that recommends putting

*any* substance in your engine's crankcase that boils at 375

degrees F.

Here's a warning I've already sent out to other motorsports

forums:

==========

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:47:22 -0400

To: moto.org

From: Russell Stephan

Subject: Two2Cool oil additive.

Maybe you guys have heard about this stuff. The web page is

completely devoid of any "hard" facts about how it works to cool

an engine drastically (like 30 degrees F drastic).

Although the company's owner, one Russell Clay, claims some new

chemical with special heat seeking properties is responsible, a

review of the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) reveals the

additive's boiling point to be 375 degrees F. That's pretty low

to be in with the oil. Oil usually boils around 550 degrees F.

So how does Two2Cool actually work? The low boiling point allows

drastic engine cooling through the well-known process of liquid

to gas phase-change when oil temperatures start nearing the

additive's boiling point. Lots of energy is removed from any

system when a substance goes from solid to liquid or liquid to

gas. The venting of the gas to atmosphere happens through the

crankcase breather.

The cooling effect is drastic but only temporary until the

Two2Cool is completely boiled off from the engine.

Here's the sad part... The owner of the company actually believes

he has discovered some substance that by-passes the traditional

laws of thermodynamics.

Give him about a week to talk with his various experts and

realize the error of his theories. If he hasn't changed his tune

by then, he's snake oiling for dollars on purpose.

The science is well-known to those that paid attention in high

school physics and chemistry. Don't let Mr. Clay's chemical

yammer babble deflect from the very basic idea of the

conservation of energy. The energy in must equal the energy out.

There is no such thing as disappearing heat. Energy can neither

be created nor destroyed. It can only change form.

If you'd like to follow this complete thread check out

www.thumpertalk.com. Go to forums, XR250/400, and look over the

topic "two2cool oil additive". It's extremely long, I know. I'm

going to try and cull my main points out for further

dissemination on the web.

This guy charges an arm and a leg for this stuff. It's pure

bogus.

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Mr urbandirt has no first hand knowledge of how two2cool works. I have time and time again offered to explain it to him personally on the phone. He has time and time again refused to take me up on the offer.

This only shows he has an agenda. Now he has resorted in finding other threads about two2cool and bashing the product.

I also have a guarantee that no one including Urbandirt has taken us up on. It has been posted here on thumpertalk more than once.

The guarantee is for anyone who wants to take us up on the offer to come whitness a test with two brand new RMZ250's. if the test doesnt go as we say it will we will give both bikes to you. We do more into detail and offer to let you conduct the test.

Again Urbandirts decision not to come collect the free bikes only goes to show he has an agenda.

Now from a personal standpoint I think his actions are nothing more than a coward and think he is a chickenshit.

Anyone else having questions or concers please feel free to contact us, 863 357 3400 Norman

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Even though urbandirt is bashing your two cool his statements sound true how your product works when the bp is 375F. You say the explanation of how two cool works is too lengthy to type up and post on the internet but you seem to have plenty of time replying to the 20 page "two cool" thread in the XR250/400 forum. I am sure that your product does what it advertises; "cools your engine 40 to 60 degrees." The downside according to urbandirt is that you have bubbles throughout your oil that are detrimental to your engine. :applause:

So in the end if you want your engine running lower temps get larger radiators or get extended cooling fins for low tech bikes like mine. :eek:

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The boiling temperature of Two2Cool was published on their data sheet. The mechanics of energy release (cooling) by phase changes of substances are well-studied and well-documented.

Two2Cool works... Only in the short run until boil-off is complete, however.

Check the XR400R forum for the experiments I've proposed to eliminate the various variables in Mr. Clay's previous data gather efforts.

Lets not forget that "cold fusion" submarined the careers of two prominent scientists because of improper data gathering and skewed observations.

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At one time I had offered anyone who wanted to know more how two2cool works to call and we would have a discussion on the subject. The reason why I did so is because it would take a long time to type it. Also I felt I was belittled by some and didnt have the need to sit and type to someone who didnt even leace open the possibility that two2cool could even work.

This is no longer the case. I have time and time again told more how it works. I have shared lots of info. Also many have posted who has talked to me on the phone had eariler questioned my claims and now they do not.

As far as the boiling point that Urbandirt is so concerned about. I googled a few different additives.

Boiling point Flash point

Lucas oil stabilizer Above 371f 425f

Prolong not listed 320f

xentx 400f

Risolene eng. treatment 320f

Two2cool 375f 520f

As one can easily see that many oil additives have a lower flash point than Two2cool. Not many lists the boiling point. The reason for this its not as much of a concern.

Lucas has close to the same boiling point two2cool does. They have never claimed oil temp drop as much as we are.

"Bubbles" I have time and time again posted one of the benifits of using two2cool is to less air entrechment(bubbles) in motor oil and the benifits of doins so.

If Urbandirt had as mush education as he thought he does he would realize that petroleum products are refined through distilation.

Take 1 galon of gasoline. Its initial boiling point can be lower than 100f. Boiled for a certain time one will distill the ingredient that boils at that level. Then raise the temp slowly and one will distill more of the ingredients that makes up gasoline.

Gas can have a boiling temp ranging from 100f to around 400f.

In other words two2cool starting boiling temp has nothing to do with the boiling temp of our main ingredient.

Again Urbandirt when are you coming to collect the free bikes??

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Also just to show how ridicolous Urbandirts claims are.

If what he said was true and a 375f boling temp was such a concern than two2cool wouldnt start to work till it began to boil/distill.

Then how does two2cool work in a bike that makes an oil temp below 300f?? Its because he has no clue what he is talking about. Two2cool works exactly they way we say it does.

Why would someone like Lucas Oil point out that there product does the same since they have the same boiling temp.

It because the boiling temp has nopthing to do with it.

Heck Some engine oils have a flash point below 400f. Two2cools flash point is much higher.

He is a troll and has an obvious agenda. H has now resorted to visiting other forums and posting his nonsense there.

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Urbandirt, both you and RC876 use terms that I am not educated enough to comment on. I appreciate both of your opinions, but as I mentioned before I am merely looking to increase the longevity and reliability of my bike, not a crash course in thermo-transfer physics.

I will have to say though, that if I were educated on the finer details of the heat transfer process, and felt dead-set that my opinion was right and RC876 was wrong, I would be catching the first flight down to sunny florida to do a day of riding, prove RC876 wrong and come home with 2 new bikes and a reimbursement check for my travel! In fact, I would even contemplate paying somenone $1,000 if you could show me a way to prove to RC876 that 2cool is detrimental to my bike, that way I would only be out $1,000 for two new bikes!

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Wow, vanhalen ups the offer by $1,000.

Hmm, Vanhallen has never even used our products. We have talked and he seems like a straight up person.

The reason why urbandirt doesnt come collect the new RMZ's is because he is more knowledgeable on this subject than he is acknowledging. I think he knows his claims are bogus.

I never made the offer of the test and free bikes if the test didnt come out like we say to be arrogant or cocky. It was meant for these guys who state their theory as proof. They do this before they have ever even seen a bottle of two2cool.

Thanks

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I have not used your product, I was just going off of common sense. I am the VP of marketing for a nutritional supplement manufaturer/retailing corporation. We believe that our product is superior to anything else out there becuase we know the data behind each of our ingredients that go into our proprietary formulations. Each ingredient has been clinically tested in multiple different applications and reasearch centers. In fact, one of our nutrients has been clinically proven through blood analysis to increase antioxidant absorption by30%-240% versus taking the same product without the absorption enhancer. Many skeptics say how this is hype, etc. I tell them that it has been and can be proven. If I could get 2 free bikes for proving this fact to someone who didn't believe me, I would certainly be on the next plane to pick my bikes up.

Like I mentioned earlier, I know next to nothing about heat transfer, but I do know common sense when I see it.

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Exactly, you would be on your way as would any other honest person.

I also told him to bring a friend and i would take them offshore fishing the next day. I have no hard feeling for this guy.

I just think he is sad.

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Vanhalen, if you want your bike to last a long time, put high quality oil (not 2Cool) in it, change it often, change the oil filter frequently and change the air filter frequenty. Its not rocket science.

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VH,

I have spoken to RC876 and and was convinced enough to try it. One time trying it did not convince me so I made an honest attempt on the product. I have used it for 4 months now on an '04 rmz 250 with a 300cc big bore from Thumper Racing. This kit uses the stock cylinder and when bored this much, the cylinder is now the wall of the water jacket. There is no cylinder space between this so the heat from the cylinder is right against the water and the oil gets damn hot. I have not had one problem with my bike over heating since using 2TCool and my oil, which I am shameful to say, does not get changed as often as it should, looks like new when I do change it. I motocross in the 30+ intermediate class and I have had no valve troubles or even changes in adjustment since I put the big bore on and began using 2TC.

Before I put the big bore on I kept having problems with about 10 minutes into a moto my clutch would start tightening up on me and then eventually would begin to slip by the last 2 laps. Again, since using this product I have not had this problem. This stuff works great. Yeah, it may be pricey but the reprocutions that can be cause from internal engine troubles is a much greater cost. Good luck.

Charlie

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Vanhalen, if you want your bike to last a long time, put high quality oil (not 2Cool) in it, change it often, change the oil filter frequently and change the air filter frequenty. Its not rocket science.

I am doing all of the above, but I wanted to keep temps running lower, which is why I was looking into the Two2Cool.

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Actually for alot of people a good synthetic oil or blend is all they need.

Engine temps are directly related to riding level and terrain. Amoung a few other variables. We feel that most cooling systems are doing their job. Even though you can benifit alot from some performance coolants and additives.

We feel that riding level plays the biggest part in extreme engine temps.

Riding a RMZ250 on a motocross track I cannot make oil temps above approx 240f. Even if I ride the bike for eternity. One of our "A" riders can get on the same bike when its still cold and make temps far above 300 in approx. 7 laps.

Now riding at this level the cooling system is overwhelmed. The bike is so hot it looses some of its initial power. Top ends/valve train is wearing at an increased rate.

As far as riding conditions go. The same bike on the same day when I personally couldnt get the oil temp above 240f I then can ride the woods next to one of our practice tracks. It has alot of tight technical rooted up sections that allways muddy. For me some are first and second gear.

On this terrain I can make oil temps on these sections over 275f. This is an example of how terrain can vary temps. A desert racer can make high oil temps riding at very fast speeds all race. An avid woods rider can make high oil temps by riding hard in slow tight woods sections.

I have allways stated everyone will benifit from using two2cool but not everyone is our target consumer.

There is atleast a few members/rmz owners here thats been suing two2cool for quite some time. Most than one of them has posted on not having to adjust their valves and mechanics noticed little wear.

Thanks Guys

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