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Throttle blasts on small doubles - my nemesis

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[sorry, a little long] I has an epiphany a couple weeks ago. I had finally figured out that speed was your friend. Previously I had gotten used to hitting jumps with more speed (as scary as that is the first few times) and low and behold it helped.

Then 2 weeks ago, watching other riders carefully, noticed that their engines reeved higher at various points and it dawned on my they were blasting the throttle briefly right at the lip to get the front end higher but then letting off some after the launch.

Lo and behold again I hit some of the smaller doubled and some step ups and right before hitting the crest them I cranked the throttle - front end rose and I cleared them. Wow, huge revelation. Very stoked now. Was also working on some minor hills they had on straightaways - blast of gas, nice boost of air.

However, there are 2 sets of doubles I cant seem to succeed on with this method. On both I tend to always have the front end low despite blasting the throttle. The first is two small doubles back to back - beginner doubles: first one is about 3.5 - 4ft tall, rounded peak. Right after you land that one (about 12 ft distance) you go right into the second which is smaller height (2.5 ft) but a very sharp peak. The throttle blast has been working on the first one pretty well: come up on it not real fast, blast the throttle when front tire hits mid hill. Most of the time I get that one. But the second one comes up quickly and I give it a blast a again, but despite the sharp peak I am still tending to land on the front tire (one of those brace yourself to not go over handlebars). Watch others and they just sail right over it level the whole time. Cant quite tell what they are going different.

The second is a bigger boy double out of a turn. This one is taller, about 4.5 ft, average launch face - not rounded, but not peaked. Top of second gear throttle blast still leaves me front heavy - hold on tight and brace for landing.

As I type I am wondering if I need to be in third for these problem ones for me. Much like why throttle blasts in high second work on some, maybe smaller throttle blast in third more ideal for others? I have been practicing this throttle technique in second gear. Works great on a cool triple whammy they have: small but sharp peaked launch at ground level, into an immediate step up, followed by a small double. Does not work on others.

I can do long high triples all day long with great distance. But doubles are my nemesis.

Will try it again tomorrow. Not giving up One rider commented "You're going to get the hang of those yet, admire your perseverance."

Thoughts?

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Great stuff, gunslinger. Absolutely try the jump a gear high, and with different throttle modulations. The only way that I can move up on some jumps is to shortshift and get on the gas. Plus, I've been real (pleasantly) surprised how the rear suspension doesn't load up and rebound on takeoffs when you're hard on the gas. 🙂

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Instead of blimping the throttle, stay steady with your weight toward the back at mid throttle and before take off just hit the throttle a little bit more, should keep your front end up.

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If you are familiar with the 'seat bounce' technique you might consider trying it.

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The last thing you want to do is approach slow and then gas it to do something. The best technique is go as fast as possible and chop throttle on the face to slow you down. Position of the bike going through the air should be based on your body position at take off. You need to have your suspension setup by someone who knows what theyre doing. Unless its a matter of power to clear a jump, I usually leave the face just barely on or off the gas. And if I am on the gas on the face its from the last turn til im in the air. Dont get into the bad habit of needing a certain throttle position or a blip to make you jump correctly.

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I dont think he has problem clearing the jump its just the bike position through the air. So in that case a seat bounce is not needed. Do what I said and get your suspension set right by a professional. Then focus on jumping technique 101.

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I dont think he has problem clearing the jump its just the bike position through the air. So in that case a seat bounce is not needed. Do what I said and get your suspension set right by a professional. Then focus on jumping technique 101.

Thats probably accurate. I have been using the blast of acceleration for jumps (apparently a bad habit). But it works so well to avoid endos from the front end dipping. I imagine I am dealing with different jump face types, even though they appear similar.

I think on softer, more rounded jump faces I keeing landing front end way low DESPITE having gunned the throttle at launch (which seems to work well on sharper jump faces). Just seems like if any throttle plast raises the front wheel, it would do so regarless of the jump face.

I may be neglecting body position as well. Maybe you recall that beginner sense of, well, fear .... and things happen so fast you have trouble recalling exactly where you were seated :eek: I may be closer to tank or front of seat instead of back which, despite the throttle blast, sends my front downward.

So those other hills that I have trouble with using the throttle method I am actually doing wrong? Wow. Its a 2 foot sharp faced lip that crosses a small pit, that then goes right into a 5 foot step up that leads into a 3 foot double with a steep face. I throttle thru these beautifully.

More rounded jump faces I am Endo Boy! :applause:

thanks for all the input!!!! Helps a ton.

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It sounds like suspension to me. Im assuming its a 05 cr 250r. If its go order a genuine honda workshop manual. Read suspension setup section and do it. Set your race sag. Have a another knowlegable rider watch you ride and comment on suspension settings. Im sure that jumping technique is a factor as well but you might as well start with the best advantage you can have by having the suspension set up properly. You should probley ride another obstacle if these are to the point that you could hurt yourself. Go another place with a whole different set of jumps. This will make you progress like you wouldnt believe. By the time you come back these will probley be cake.

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Seat bounce is for extra height or length it actuallu kicks the back end more. So if your problem is front end too low then seat bounce is not your answer. If your problem is not enough distance the seat bouce may help.

To get the front end up you have to either apply enough throttle to counter the return of the spring on the jump face and / or throw your arse back as the back wheel is kicking off the face.

Watch the pros over doubles and as they take off they blip the throttle and throw the bum back.

I use this technique on doubles and longer rythem sections and it works perfectly.

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To get the front end up you have to either apply enough throttle to counter the return of the spring on the jump face and / or throw your arse back as the back wheel is kicking off the face.

When we refer to throwing my arse back, is it literally sitting down quickly on the back of the seat or just moving my arse back but not actually sitting on the seat? And finally, is there any pulling on the handlebars or is it the weight to the back that does the job.

Many, many thanks. :applause:

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Check your forks...if they are set too soft then they won't get the necessary spring to maintain balance at takeoff.

Seat bouncing is you leaving a jump face in the the seated position. After takeoff the rear of the bike will kick you into a standing position. The shorter the takeoff the harsher you will be thrown forward. Do not pull up on the bars until you got the basic seat bounce down as you need the skills to correct the landing in the air. You will jump nose high and stay nose high if you pull back.

If your having trouble going nose down on certain jumps then practice the "air blip." After takeoff when you start to feel the nose drop, blip the throttle and the nose will come up. This works best just after take-off. If your endoing in the air it has minimal effect if any. As long as your body is in a neutral position the "air blip" will work.

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Hmmm. All good stuff. Come to think of it, I am #185, and I am sure the factory shock settings are set for a lighter rider. Moe questions about fork adjustment to follow :applause:

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literally moving the arse in toward the back of the bike. It naturally moves toward the seat and may bump the seat, but generally its a backward movement, not aimed at hitting the seat.

Generally no pulling of bars, as the throttle blip should take care of this. You want to get out of trying to control the bike too much with your arms. They aint big enough, they get tired enough and its bad technique.

Learn to grip the bike with your feet, take off with half bent legs , you can pull the rear up with your feet and press it down.

You really need to go back to smaller high jumps and learn to move the bike around with throtle and legs. When you have a range of little tricks you can do that show control over the bike then its time for some medium jumps. So on and so forth.

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Thanks all the STELLAR input. I appreciate it. I feel a little though like I am getting some mixed input on using the throttle to control the front end at take off.

In general should I be:

"Hitting the jump at a constant speed, and a higher speed, (not sitting, no seat bounce yet), weight to back and ONLY blip throttle if while in the air front end downward?"

Is that the sum of it. I keep reflecting back over those problematic jumps and I am wondering if the throttle blast at launch was ok but I may have been sitting by tank instead of back - negating my throttle blast and leaving me front heavy. I do have trouble leaning backin the air, I tend to twist the throttle more the farther I lean back :applause:

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In general should I be:

"Hitting the jump at a constant speed, and a higher speed, (not sitting, no seat bounce yet), weight to back and ONLY blip throttle if while in the air front end downward?"

Weight to back? weight should be neutral and slightly forward on take-off, then adjust more forward for steep jump faces or back for short kickers.

For that rythm section you were having trouble with, try what you said to start it but you may have to do your little blip for the 2nd or 3rd jump if that jump is immediately following the first one. Make sure when you blip that you don't let off the throttle until you've left the air. If you blip it too fast and the rear wheel hasn't left the jumpface you could endo. Hope that makes sense...there are so many variations to mx techniques its hard to give an exact answer without seeing what you are having trouble with.

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Your weight should be around the central riding position, slightly standing. Light accelleration is the easiest to control. As the front wheel leaves the ramp and the back wheel rebound starts to take effect this has a rotational effect on the bike. The back is being sprung up and over the front, while the front is beginning to dip because it is already airborne.

You have to counter this forward rotation of the bike at that point. A small throttle blip (not a huge blast) is the best. On jumps that have heaps of rear kick like a shorts steep double you need either a greater throttle blip, or as the rear wheel kicks your but goes back to soak up some of the kick.

You are probably doing this anyway, as it tends to be an automatic response in most but the very begginers.

Seat bounce is an advanced technique. Its a great one, but you are using your full body weight to increase the rear end kick. When a good rider counters that extreme kick they get extra height / distance as a result.

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If you are having problems jumping while standing, please do not attempt a seatbounce. You will probley do a major faceplant.

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