Has anyone tried one of these...

[Shawn_Mc]

its an R&D spring glide ring. I guess the spring wants to rotate and shake when you compress it and it binds and is trapped between the OEM collars on the shock.

The idea makes sense. Im wondering if its just the ultimate bling or something truly functional...

[couchrider]

sorry wrong thread

[DaveJ]

Interesting.

I guess I could see the spring may rotate some, and of course there would be some binding between the spring and factory collars, but I can't see how this deters spring performance.

Are you seeing any wear on your stuff?

What are your thoughts?

[mxaddict]

its an R&D spring glide ring. I guess the spring wants to rotate and shake when you compress it and it binds and is trapped between the OEM collars on the shock.

The idea makes sense. Im wondering if its just the ultimate bling or something truly functional...

I have this preload ring from Factory Connection that works on the same idea:

The needle bearings are tucked well up in the collar, and even with the spring preloaded to the correct sag it will spin by hand like it wasn't tightened down at all. Before I had it and I took my spring off to send the shock to Factory Connection you could definitely see the rub marks on the lower collar where it had been grinding trying to spin. Now it spins freely, and after using it I would definitely say it works, mostly on how well it tracks over acceleration chop coming out of corners. It's very hooked-up. I haven't tried R&D's part, but if it spins as freely as the preload collar I'm using it will actually add function and not be just bling. Here's what the collar looks like on my shock(it's next to a stock '05 CRF shock):

[Shawn_Mc]

The article I was reading about Fact. R&D said they tested the needle bearing piece and they said they went with the plastic because of the needles rusting and such.

I thought Id seen a needle bearing piece...it was in your works suspension post MXaddict!

Id noticed wear on the collars of my bike and a couple others Id changed the spring on but never really thought about it.

Seems to me, that if the spring was able to push without binding, it would make the thing feel softer than it really was....just a tad..but some none the less..almost like you had more sag than you really did ya know....

[DaveJ]

So I'm now under the impression that the spring is rotating when compressed, and rotating back when decompressing. And of course, any binding would slow compression...and rebound...if we cared.

Yes?

BTW - what article are you referring to?

[russ17]

Moved

[SC_Spode]

Russ,

Interesting stuff.

Why don't you repost this in a separate thread so it won't get lost.

I know side loading from a coil spring can occur, as you can see it on a pogo stick. I would be interested to see what sort of side deflection occurs when installed on a shock that is mounted on a chassis, and measure the forces produced from being constrained.

The real proof would be what you were talking about: whether you can quantify them or not, if you can effectively eliminate them will you notice a difference in the suspension action?

The testing leads him to say "yes".

About 25 years ago I designed a rotary damper/ leaf spring suspension for a motorcycle (as well as an "under the chassis" shock with a torsion bar) as a science fair project for a high school Physical Science class.

I didn't realize all the forces in play at that time (and I probably still don't!), but the leaf spring eliminates this phenomenon (while introducing its own issues, probably why no has gotten it to work well enough for a production dirt bike).

I'm wondering when we reach the end of development with the current dirt bike suspension designs and move on to the next.

It seems the next task is to convince the average Joe that this is something he can gain enough benefit from to buy instead of some shiny stuff. ?

?

[Shocknut]

SC SPode...

A link for you, that will answer some of your questions. http://icpcitation.com/shockperches.htm

It doesn't address the "rotational" issue solved by the Factory R&D or torrington bearing. The question there is just how much the spring really does rotate, if it does at all. That amount can be a result of spring quality. Even a poor spring may not rotate that much and as soon it reaches that limit it's going to stop and continue to imply those sideload forces. In other words, in my opinion, the torrington or "slide" doesn't achieve as much in the results column as a hyrdualic perch would, combined I think you have more of a synergistic effect.

As an example, I use aluminum adapter collars to adapt my proprietary springs(produced by Hypercoils) and they act as spring seats. They do not get torn up although you can detect a little movement on them on occasion. But, what is happening with this "slide" is it is allowing a poorer quality spring to be used a little more efficiently, so basically we are addressing the symptom and not the real problem. Now, thats not to say this product has no use because it does as most springs offered today are not that great really. I've just found the Hypercoils to be a notch better in this regard, which is why I chose to stake my reputation on them.

Another example is I used a rubber cover on the perch's in my long term ride tests, and if this rotation phenomena is the real culprit it would have torn it apart in a hurry. It did eventually wear through it where the end coil dug into it but it took a long time and I suspect more of it was due to compressive force then rotation. This was with a Hypercoils shock spring, not a oem and I'm quite sure some of the more crappy springs would have torn it up a lot worse due to rotation.

The thread Russ pulled that info from is actually quite long, and has some really great info in it. I suppose if their is enough interest I could go dig up a link and post it.

[Shocknut]

How did I become a newbie here again?? I've posted here more then 8 times in the past???

[SC_Spode]

Jeff,

Thanks for the link and info.

As for this:

How did I become a newbie here again?? I've posted here more then 8 times in the past???

My guess is it happened when TT was updated. I haven't been able to find posts that I know were there.

Seems some stuff went missing.

?