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im gonna :D

all that ever happens anymore is people reccomending chink bikes for people that should be getting a honda and supporting the sport.

if anyone has noticed there is lots of aftermarket 50 compainies going out of buisness, because they cant compete with all the cheap crap coming from overseas. you guys have NO idea how cheap these products really are. i cant belive they can get costs so low. the heart of the 50 craze is getting clogged, and i want to see my sport go long into the future.

its just like the pocketbike craze, there was the serious pocketbikes and nsr's ysr's. then all sorts of 200$ walmart bikes showed up and killed the fad.

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Agreed, Knockoffs are definetly ruining the sport, it wont be taken as seriously as it should when people get recomended junk chink bikes that break all the time they will then think of it as a joke.

Just think of this, how many Chinese bikes made it at vegas.

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well some people actually use their pit bikes as... pitbikes.

i think the knockoffs are fine for people like this. but for people who really thrash their poor little 50's (like me) going with high quality aftermarket is the only way. sooner or later people will realize this (i hope) and build their bikes instead of buying a knockoff and expecting it to hold up.

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tbolt seems like a very legitimate company who actually is supporting the 50 community. i think five0 is talking about the dozens of other knock off importers who dont care about the 50 community at all, and see it only as a way to make some money.

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1st, Have you ever thought that these companies don't survive simply because too many of them jumped on the pitbike bandwagon ? Simple fact, there are more after market pitbike part manufacturers per bike sold than there are big bike parts guys.......only takes simple math the to figure that one out.

2nd, i ride a knock off, and funnily enough it's covered in after market parts from ishock, Red Baron, Excel, Skunkworks, Hardstyle, takegawa, Kitaco.....and the list goes on. Though it's not that i HAD TO replace most these parts, i just wanna pimp pitty.

Can you explain again how china bikes are putting the after market parts guys out of bussiness ?? :D

3rd, Do you think Honda sponsor a single mini event over here ?? Nope !! But the china guys do...... :D

4th, if you buy your knock off through a abike shop, are you not supporting your local motor bike community ?? They do generally stock other brands not made in china. And IMO the biggest and best thing we can do is support our local shops. We need them almost as much as they need us. Unless of course your a complete hypocrit and buy everything online basicly ruining the local bike shop bussinesses..... :D

As for ebay sellers, fvck em, i agree they do zero for the sport in general, and 99% of the time don't give a shit about either their customers or the sport. But thats not ALL china bikes is it ?!?!

Once again i'll say it for the record, i got no problem with Honda's, for some they are the way to go, but for others they are not. Why is that so hard to understand ??

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I bought a china bike. In fact I bought two! I am 35yrs old and have a wife and four kids!!!! I cannot spend the 5 grand it would take to make a Honda do what I want it too. Or 10 grand so my oldest kid could have one too.

I bought two Pitster Pro 125's from Vince at Tboltusa. I also bought a fox shock and I will be buying much more from him. Vince has been very helpful and we now race on his team. In fact without his support we wouldn't be out there every week having a blast racing. I also bought Pro taper bars, A BBR tall seat, Classic Honda Ultima Pipe, Two brothers brake pedal, UNI filters, Tires. So Even though I own a china bike doesn't mean I am not out there supporting the sport.

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im gonna :D

all that ever happens anymore is people reccomending chink bikes for people that should be getting a honda and supporting the sport.

so ur saying even ppl that just putt around in the dirt, & on their property should get a honda too? when they just need to spend a few hundred on a bike that will suit their needs.

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What is the definition of a "knockoff" bike? Is a bike built from non-Honda parts (Billetware frame, Fox shock, Marzocchi forks, motor 90% Kitaco, BBR exhaust, etc.) considered a knockoff since it wasn't made/sold by Honda?

Is the engine the part that determines if the bike is a knockoff or not? What if the engine is 90% non-Honda (Kitaco, Takegawa, etc.) but uses Honda center cases? Does that make the complete bike a knockoff or not? If I were to use aftermarket engine center cases like the machined from billet cases made by G-Craft in Japan then surely it would be a knockoff... I guess. I'm getting confused here. I don't really understand what makes a bike a "knockoff" and what doesn't. If the bike is built in China then that is the only thing that qualifies it as a knockoff? What if it the same basic bike was built in Japan?

Hypothetically lets imagine that Marzocchi, BBR, Kitaco and a few other high-end aftermarket companies got together and started building complete bikes in China with all of their usual high quality parts. A top notch bike, with the best of the best parts (95% non-Honda parts of course) would cost a good $10,000 retail if you built it yourself like many people do. However, since it comes as a complete bike from China you can buy it for $2,000. Would you buy it? Would you call it a "knockoff" bike?

Another thing I don't understand is why people call these pit bikes "knockoffs" of a Honda CRF50 when in fact they aren't trying to knockoff (copy) the Honda which has maybe three horsepower, a couple inches of suspension travel, and a 3-speed auto clutch. What they are trying (and getting better at very quickly) to knockoff is the $10,000 bikes made from high-dollar aftermarket parts that have eight horsepower, six inches of suspension travel, and multiple speed manual clutch transmissions. I could be wrong but it seems like Honda isn't the one getting "knocked-off" but companies like BBR, Marzocchi, and Kitaco are.

One thing that is odd to me is how people buy a Honda and then junk 95% of the parts, keeping only engine cases, misc. nuts and bolts, and maybe the kickstarter, and then scream and yell how everyone else is traitor for not riding a Honda. What exactly do these "Honda" riders think they're riding?

A Honda CRF50 seems like a perfect bike for a five year old but it certainly wouldn't do me any good... well, not without another $5k (or most likely more) worth of non-Honda parts anyway. If I can buy a bike that is much bigger and drastically more powerful than a CRF50 then wouldn't that be a better bike for a full sized adult like myself? A group of guys that I know bought a big lot of Pitster Pro 125s and since they bought so many they were considerably less money than the usual selling price. They are having an absolute blast on their private track every chance they get. There is nobody that is going to be able to convince any of those guys that they made the wrong decision.

As confused on these issues as I may be, there is one thing that seems clear... The majority of the people that buy the better quality "knockoff" brands like Pitster or Thumpstar are happy with their bikes while people that have dumped $5k-$10k into their so-called Hondas are very grumpy and can't stop whining about how the "knockoff" buyers should be bitter and resentful like they are.

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im gonna :D

all that ever happens anymore is people reccomending chink bikes for people that should be getting a honda and supporting the sport.

if anyone has noticed there is lots of aftermarket 50 compainies going out of buisness, because they cant compete with all the cheap crap coming from overseas. you guys have NO idea how cheap these products really are. i cant belive they can get costs so low. the heart of the 50 craze is getting clogged, and i want to see my sport go long into the future.

its just like the pocketbike craze, there was the serious pocketbikes and nsr's ysr's. then all sorts of 200$ walmart bikes showed up and killed the fad.

I have looked into chinese trail bikes and even more into pocket-bikes, we built a super-fast electric pocket-bike, with the right gearing it could do 70mph+:D - way to fast for a pocket-bike. You know a lot of those pocket-bikes and petrol scooters are terrible quality, some are coppied from the real things from ONLY pictures and manufactured by WHEELBARROW companys!!! My friend had a petrol scooter like that and his mum had a bad accident from like 20mph when the handle-bars totally broke off!!!

Anyway if you want to ask me any question on pocket-bikes ill be happy to answer, as unfortunatly i know a lot about them. Don't get me wrong though, i have seen lots of high quality larger bikes, some use 10 year-old yamaha dezigns, but cost a fraction of the price. I was considering geting a chinese bike because of the money situation, but could not find many light weight big-bore bikes.

Cheers,

Felix

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Many aftermarket companies have gone under because too many of them jumped into the game trying to sell the same parts for too much, changing just the stickers to 'claim' they were their own.

Food for thought, this is what happened to the PC. You really think people not buying IBM buried the PC market? : )

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Damn, why's it gotta be a "chink" bike?

Would a Harley be considered a "cracker" bike?

How about a African made bike, a "&%$#@!" bike?

So let me guess, Honda's are "slant eyed, chop-stick usin' Jap" bikes right?

Am I getting the hang of this?

Support what you support, but do we have to offend people's culture while we're at it?

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What a reply! Very well done MotoGreg

Olson6

amen, no honda fans will reply to that, coz it blew them away. they will now be sitting on their $5k + bikes crying and saying "why did i buy honda, i could have got a chink bike for half the price and it''s better than my honda" :D

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First off, fiv0addict is just pissed cuz he's into this stunt bullshit and they have came up with some of their own products and they are not selling..so he's venting and ya cant blame him.

Second, I have not ever supported non-Honda pit bikes. WHY, because for the first 2 years of this scene, every fvcking knock off that came out was trash, junk, POS.

Shocks busting in half, tripple clamps snaping in half and most of all, a engine that couldnt make 3 decent laps.

With that said, how can you not blame a guy for downing the knock off's? :D

YUP, they are killing the sales and putting places out of biz but so what..I say GOOD!

If most of these places were not so greedy, and didn't have to make all their R&D back with in the first year, they would do fine. :eek:

Here's where its gets fvcked up....

The ONLY reason to buy a Honda is for the motor...thats retarded but true.

We replace the frame (made in USA), then we replace the rims (made over seas), next is the forks (made from both sides) and then the pipe (made in USA by a over seas owned company) ... lastly, Honda engine mods which are ALL made in china! :D

We pit bike people are some strange SOB's,lol.

Bottom line is, start hammering places like 50 caliber who sell this shit and spread the word in a good way, for a good reason.

You want BBR around just incase you gotta buy some new forks? Well then, you better hope 50 cal doesnt ruin it for them cuz they are working at it everyday.

Same with the ppl on ebay selling those tin foil bikes. Take a sec and make a ME page on ebay..its free.. and explain in there how bad some of these bikes are.

Take a sec and email the current bidders to warn them of what they are about to buy. I do !

None of you will prolly do this cuz you'd rather hang out here and just keep bitching about it. :D

My bike is half USA and half knock off.....weather I like it or not, its a fact!!

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amen, no honda fans will reply to that, coz it blew them away. they will now be sitting on their $5k + bikes crying and saying "why did i buy honda, i could have got a chink bike for half the price and it''s better than my honda" :D

Yea, a bike half the price better than mine, thats a good one. I would spend the $5K all over again because I know my bike is better than any chinese bike.

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Well said Grafixxs, even though there is less than 5% honda left on my bike, the rest is made in either the USA or Taiwan where all the motor manufactures really have there stuff produced, (Kitaco, Takegawa, TrailBikes).

So yea its not true Honda anymore, but the quality of what Ive replaced the Honda stuff with is worlds above what comes from China.

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Two years from now when the market is completely whored out (can you say goped and pocketbike) and 90% of the chinese bikes and parts sellers are gone, there will be a resurgence of the quality aftermarket parts and companies.

The space is currently too crowded and does need to be weeded out.

This post isn't directed at any individual company as there are some good vendors selling chinese parts that do have product support as many of you are aware. However, for every good company, there's a "company" selling chinese bikes out of the back of their shed because everyone thinks they can make a quick $$ importing in and selling chinese bikes capitalizing on the current trends. Companies are popping up like ants at an outdoor picnic.

Since the space is overpopulated, these companies do not sell on quality, but tend to be the low cost leader and the prices keep going down and down and down without any distributor network in place, and very little, if any product support.

They gain sales by dropping their pants and selling as cheap as they can to take the business away from their competitors. In the near future, the costs are going to become so low even the legitimate Chinese vendors aren't going to be able to turn enough profit to make it worth their while. Along those lines, a company imports and markets a good bike, and some other company imports in the same bike and sells it at a fraction of the cost! Any Chinese bike can be sourced by anyone who can use google. ANY BIKE! The chinese will sell anything that isn't bolted down, and have no respect for exclusive agreements.

Let's look at a quick example in the motor arena:

6 months ago, a lifan/Zongshen/GPX motor retailed for $799 giving the distributor and dealer ample profit. The cost on these motors to the distributor is around $200-$300 depending on the motor. The distributor makes a profit, and the dealer makes a profit and makes it worth their time to sell and support the product. Now enter 50-100 other sellers importing in these motors or similar motors and rather then pricing at what should be $799, they sell the motors for $500 cutting out most established distribution networks. Other vendors see this and price the motors at $475, $450 to compete in this space and the prices keep going down. While it's good for the consumer if they can receive product support, it's terrible for the businesses. There's not product or pricing infrastructure and it's going to lead to widespread market failure over the next 12-24 months in a big way.

Back on the Honda front, since company sales on the Honda aftermarket parts are down 70% over 3-6 months ago, there is very little new product development, and these companies are hurting and looking for other areas to profit in. Is this good for the sport/hobby?

In the end, all this stuff will work itself out after a big fireball of fury and anger. I'm sitting back with a bowl of tastey popcorn and will merely watch the carnage unfold.

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graphixxs you can ****off about the stunt shit. im back out on the dirt.

if your putting around the pits or your backyard you dont need/want a big knockoff. building a honda up from a stock crf 50 to meet your needs and wants is what i want to see alot more of. the portrayed "shortcut" into the sport can be more like a backstep. its a huge chance that shouldnt be taken

building a knockoff is one of the stupedest things. biig waste of money when the bike cost more than a stocker.

i built my bike over 3 YEARS. its been a awesome trip. i dont need what i have, i want what i have. my bike is completly one of a kind, never seen anyone with the same setup. ride a knockoff and evryone is riding the same danm bike.

almost all my parts have been made in the usa, supporting the people that make quality parts from quality metals in a country all about quality. if anything does happen i dont need to speak another language to get a replacement component.

im glad this topic has taken off :banghead:

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