How Loud is Loud?

"Noise is just one of them. Resposnible users is another. These greenies get a lot of their ammo from just a few ignorant ones." From the post directly above.

My first post up top was sarcastic and me and my family are sensitive to the neighbors in our ruraly part of town, Hey we don't want a war on our dirt road.

This quote from above in my opinion is huge!!! I find it amazing how much of an impact a few can have. I'm 23y/o and ride mostly at ocotillo wells in the SoCal desert. I've been riding there for 15 years. I'm blown away how in the past 3-5 years the popularity of this place has exploded. Now it's not just a place to ride it's also a place to party for people my age and younger only I've grown up out there and was tought to respect the place and clean up after myself. I party just as hard but when I leave you can't tell. After busy weekends Ocotillo resembles a dump littered with beer cans/bottles/ and plain trash. It wasn't like this 5 years ago. I don't know if the disrespectful party people from Glamis got sick of the drive and decided to make Ocotillo they're new home or what but it disgusting to see people trash the place because we all know what that will lead to. CLOSED SIGNS!!! HMMMM it happened at Glamis!!! How can people learn this. I can only cruise around in my parents buggy for so long and pick up trash. Organized clean ups shouldn't have to happen. When you approach people getting ready to leave that you can tell aren't going to clean up their trash you shouldn't have to almost get in fight to get your message across. The rangers can only do so much. I think it's a huge part of teenagers and young adults that have grown up in the city not caring about anything but themselves. You know the ones that think their the Sh@%. Driving their brand new parent bought truck throwing trash out the window and chugging beers trying there hardest not to run over the little kids on the small tracks around camp. Maybe if we tell these guys they're going to loose their party spot they'll start keeping it clean. Probably not, but I know most of them don't ride or they suck at riding. They go out and buy a brand new bike cause they saw Seth on Crusty partying it up and going big so they have to also. Little do they know is that half the time their weekend is cut short cause someone in their group gets hauled away in an ambulance. It's even better to watch them sit there drinking their beers, throughing them on the ground, and then riding off drunk right into the side of a cliff!! HAHAHAHA. Alright, I've ranted enough I'm sure everyone knows how I feel about this issue, I think sound is a problem but, it's something that comes and goes. The trash in my area has already come and it's not going away cause unlike sound it doesn't just float away in the distance it either gets covered up in the dirt or maybe if I'm lucky it'll get picked up. The trash in my area is what's going to kill it and that's what affects me the most. If anyone want's to go to Ocotillo and ride I'm almost always up for it. Email me.



When in doubt, GAS IT!

[This message has been edited by sirhk100 (edited 03-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by sirhk100 (edited 03-22-2001).]


Now im being called "self absorbed with my head up my A!! Brian, Let me say first that I race in the "Best in the Desert" in Nevada. I have already addressed the fact that now one is around when I race. If you and others dont like it too bad, I cant help you. I do participate in dualsport rides in Bass Lake, Kennedy Meadows, Santa Barbara and San Bernadino. I'll have you know when I ride those events I make my bike as quiet as possible!!!!!!! Were talking Vortip and stock exhaust!!!!! Im sorry if you and your supporters think that's too loud also,but again if you do I cant help you there eigher. I try to fit in the enviroment as best I can. Why you say? To be rescectful. Not to play by the Sierra Club manual!

For those who read this and say im an idiot and self-absorbed, You dont know me!!! And Im sorry you think so. Its a funny thing, the older I get the more I realize that you cant please everyone.....

Ron, The ride was great as always. On Saturday I convinced a friend to buy a new WR426F. Hope to see you out there soon! Dan


Sorry to hear your riding spot is being destroyed. If I lived out there i would help you any way I could. Enforcement is another issue. The authorities can only do so much. Those people you speak of are going to get your area closed for you and that is not cool. These poeple need to be shot, oops I meant taught on how to use this property. Maby trash cans could help. After people get boozed, they only want the open container thay are currently drinking in the car, so the empties get left behind. I really dont' know what to sugest for your situation.

Building a track on your parents mountain side sounds great to me.

good luck



I agree some people need to pull their heads out of their asses, at least so they can hear how loud their bikes are.


I think Brians remark was for those who refuse to accept this topic as an important issue or just don't care how loud there bike is and who hears it. I didn't read it as being directed to you personally.

I may be wrong on both. If so ..sorry.

[This message has been edited by mike68 (edited 03-22-2001).]

Nicely put Pete.

This is a valid issue for all involved. Our reality is that noise (for some reason especially dirt bikes) bring complaints. So what can we do? It's doubtful that we'll change the minds of the complainers, but we can make our beloved machines quieter (with a little help). This concept stems from the idea that if people didn't hear us they wouldn't even know we were there. Keep commenting to the after market and the manufacturers to give us quiet performance. I'm sure the technology is there, but the market demand is not. We are the market. We've already seen riding spots go away.

I am actually surprised at how bad the stock set-up on my WR400 was.

Throttle stop, removable baffle, considerable amount or rejetting. I haven't had to do this much tweeking to a street bike of mine since my 1983 GS1100.

The street bike exhausts are incredibly quiet with very little loss of power. My 1997 YZ1000 has the exup valve which increases the low end torque. Yes an aftermarket exhaust might get me about 3hp more on the top (like I might notice the difference between 128hp and 131hp) , but with a loss of about 3 ftlbs of torque. So why change out the exhaust. The street bikes are even getting titanium canisters now. So the technology is there to mas produce great stuff.

But keep the stock WR400 exhaust? It is a boat anchor, and either it is way quiet with no power or as loud as any aftermarket pipe. And what bone head put the head pipe in the way of the oil filter, clearly the same idiot that came up with the throttle stop. I atleast figured that this might get the bike a CA Green Sticker, but no such luck, what was the point?

There is little alternative but to swap it out.

If the stock pipe was only 1-3lbs heavier, and put out reasonable power and lower sound levels, I would have kept it. In fact I prefer a quieter exhaust.

The performance difference between a stock WR400 and my "tweeked" bike is incredible. Who in their right mind would not un cork the darn thing.

Now if the Jap street bikes weren't that great right out the crate, then I would just count my blessings that I even have a starting point as good as the WR. But the street bikes have shown me the light, that Japan can produce a good stock exhaust that is quiet, powerful and virtually eliminates the need to replace the thing, unless all you really want is more noise.

Why can't they do the same thing for the dirt bikes? Should it really be any more difficult?

The reason I bring this up is because I agree with both sides, I want the power, but would prefer to traval under the "radar" in stealth mode. On street bikes it is NOT how fast you are going but how loud it seems like you are going, that gets you the ticket. Similar to what the gentleman aboove me said "out of sight, out of mind". I know that Yamaha can do it, and it will probably sell more bikes in the long run.

My 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by John in Long Beach (edited 03-22-2001).]

This thread and several others I've read here and else where have made me think. See my post "I feel guilty now".

Going back to the 60's and 70's, I loved the sound of a straight piped four strokes. My thumper is very loud and I love it, but I've seen to much land closure in the last 30 years.

Just food for thought, maybe a good time to YZ time my bike :)



86TT225, 99WR, WR timing, throttle stop trimmed, air box lid removed, White Bros head pipe, silencer and air filter. De-octopussed. Works frame guards and Thumper Rad Guards, Scotts steering damper. Odometer and headlight removed. Moose hand and mud guards. YZ stock tank, IMS seat and number plate. Renthal Jimmy Button "highs" and Renthal Soft half waffle grips. AMA, SETRA, Happy Ramblers MXC.

Well put Pete. mike68, I too applaud you in your efforts to open some for of dialogue with "them". It's a few bad apples that cause a good deal of problems in any "special interest group". I would like to think that most of us are responsible riders. Just as most persons concerned with land impact issues are not chaining themselves to trees or to the sides of BLM buildings for a couple weeks until their agenda is met. The sad fact is that these "extremists" get the media coverage and issues get blown out of proportion and skewed....seriously skewed.

Do you really need that extra couple horsepower by uncorking your exhaust? Think about it. If your attitude is "f*** it, I can do what I want" then your no different than the greenie extremists, your just in a different special interest group.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.


Pete stated it better than I could.

Dan - I was not attacking you individually. Just the whole 'this is america, i can do whatever I want, loud pipes save lives, if it's too loud, you're too old' type mentality.


This has indeed turned into an interesting debate. The original intent of this thread was to point out the hypocrisy of the noise issue: Harleys in crowded suburbia go unchallenged while dirt bikes get hammered for being too loud out in the middle of nowhere.

Somewhere along the line I've turned into a bad apple with my head up my butt because I chouse to run a DSP exhaust system. Never mind my particular riding circumstances. Oh well, maybe I deserve it for not knowing my p's & q's about db's in general.

I firmly believe the issue is not about the actual sound level that comes out of a motorcycle. If my WR made no sound at all the save the planet folks would find something else to cry about. Just my humble opinion.

Many of you have some very good points. I can't argue and don't want to. I also can not tell you how sick and tired I am of this whole save the planet thing. Today I read in the paper that the eco nuts have sued the owner of a wind farm (electricity generating windmills) because the props on the windmills kill birds. What? The guy had to shut down his electricity generating wind farm at the same time the State is having blackouts. This is the kind of thing we are up against.

It's not noise, it's insanity.


I don't think that Harleys go unnoticied - it's just that most people are apathetic and don't give much thought to how to stop the Harley problem. The 'problem' rides on down the road & is out of earshot fairly quickly due to all the other noise that we are surrounded by.

However, the eco freaks (& general public to some extent) do give thought to how to stop the dirt equivalent of the straight piped Harley because it is 'infringing' on their "experience" and doesn't just disappear.


Guys, Dont worry about my feelings here, im just enjoying the conversation. Its just that I bought the WR for its intent a "closed course" ohv! I bought my T4 pipe for its intent a "closed course" pipe. Guess what? I ride mostly on "closed courses". If that makes me a "bad apple" you are wrong!!

I have a feeling that some of you guys that disagree with me mostly ride dualsport. Just because I ride in an open area doesnt make me a bad apple.

Some of you I noticed want us all to be very respectful to our friends in eviromental groups, Give me a break!!!! The only thing they want is to close down every dirt road on the planet, they're not wanting to have a good working relationship with us!! They want to get rid of all of us. Go ahead be really nice to them, it wont do any good. In fact insead of the old saying "Sierra club go hike to hell" how about "Hello Sierra club members could you please go to some other place less desireable". Would that make you feel better? I have been on many legal trails that enviromentalists have bobbie trapped, Its not fun seeing your father get hit in the face by a 2X4 hidden in a corner... Sincerly, Bad Apple

Well you don't seem to understand that it is NOT the environmentalists we are trying to be friendly to.

It is the general public that might have to listen to us.

See... as I see it.. we are a small group... and the environmentalists are a small group... and "us against them"... we could probably fight them to a draw.

But when we push members of the general public over to their side by annoying them.... We LOSE.

And again... what difference does it make to have 43HP instead of 46HP?... especially if we ALL have 43 ????

And those of you who figure "I am not annoying anybody because there isn't anybody out there"... I doubt it... there are probably more people out there than you think.... Your loud bike's noise will carry 3 miles under some conditions... (I have proof)... so you are laying down a 6 mile wide swath of noise when you ride.

And for those of you who ride on racetracks only... How far do you have to drive to your racetrack?

Would you put a 92db pipe on to ride at a new track within 15 miles of your house that had a 92db rule?... to keep the neighbors off their back?.... I would.

Stealth is a GOOD thing... And I ain't slow either!

What an interesting topic this has turned out to be! It seems to me that some people on this forum feel that they have been personally attacked for having loud exhaust systems. Get over it. No-one here is questioning anybody's judgement or intelligence.The simple fact of the matter is loud dirt bikes are hurting the sport that we all love. The average guy doesn't care if you ride - as long as he can't hear you.Out of sight -out of mind. If you don't bug John Q. with your noisy bike then he has no perception of any kind of a dirt bike problem. Then when the Nature Nazis start screaming that the sky is falling,they come off sounding foolish and alarmist.I have read some replies that sound militant and borderline hateful in regards to the eco. groups. These are very dangerous attitudes to foster.Certainly there are those in amongst the greenies that hate us, and feel as though they are fighting a "war" against the evil off-roaders.Because of their attitudes and actions,those are the ones that we call "nature nuts" or "tree huggers"(among other things),basically they are fools.If we act as they do,then we are no better than them and we too look foolish.You all know the saying "one bad apple...";don't be that bad apple with your attitude or your noisy bike,it trully ruins it for everyone else.I believe that "one bad apple" applies to the eco.groups too.I can't imagine that every member of all of the various eco groups out there are all fanatical socialists bent on ruining our quality of life.I would bet that if you checked it out you would find that most of the greenies aren't all that different than you or I.The only way to resolve land use issues is through dialogue.Props to mike68 for realizing the solution and being pro-active in getting this much-needed dialogue started.We should rally around people like him,make our position understood,and try to understand the concerns of others.I know it sounds like a cop-out,but reasonable people can come to reasonable agreements,compromise is the answer.

We can sit around and complain about how we got it bad till the cows come home.....but we'll be lucky if we still got the same number of cows. Perhaps my comment about the "bad apples" was taken out of context by a few...that wasn't my intention. For every Emtremist Lobbyist there's probably 1000 other indifferent citizens we could sway. That's what they (greenies) do; sway the indifference.

That's what they've done over the last several years, and that's partly to do with the current "climate".

If we sit around and point fingers at those "loud Harley's", we're acting like a bunch of whining 5 year olds saying "buuuut heeee's doing it!!!!".

I'm not entirely sure what the solution is, but several people seem to be able to find the faults in other groups (me included). It's time for a little introspection......understanding your weaknesses makes you stronger.

oh...and 43hp is better than say...Zero.


[This message has been edited by Mojo (edited 03-23-2001).]

ditto DeBarker.

We gotta watch out for those TO boys - they're all a bunch of bad apples :)

Actually, I ride a mix of trails & DS. Still do some trail riding on my KX500 so no I'm not perfect.

Just a little observation. At xmas (Thursday after xmas) me & 4 friends were at Middle Creek on Trail 38 - first time I'd ridden it. #38 is ~10 miles of single track that goes pretty far out into the middle of nothing. We stopped at a hilltop clearing for a break - great view, perfect weather & the ring-ding of 2 strokes in the air. Couldn't see the bikes but could hear them well enough to know when they shifted. My point? I believe we were at least a mile from any other trail and we 'noticied' the other bikes - think how a hiker/hunter/nudist/etc feel. Note that I did not say Sierra Clubber or EcoFreak - I'm talking about people like you & me that happen to enjoy a different type of recreation.



The people is serria club and other eco groups were probably just normal outdoorsmen at one time. Not that they are now, but they weren't born that way. I have been talking with the eco's and some are real pricks while others can carry a normal conversation with the opposing group members.

It's a really f'd up situation. Some of their opinions I flat out disagree with right to their face. It doesn't stop us from communicating with each other. At the hearing in NH, the person I have been communicating with that is a serria club member, voted for and I voted against. After the hearing we discussed some of the topics and are still going to work on getting these groups together. I forgot where I was going with this. I think what I am trying to say is that there are good people in the invironmental groups and there are many dick heads. With us there are a few dick heads and many who care. So why cant we change the way we are viewed??????

Dan, I think that I must be rubbing off on you a bit??

Anyone else giving Dan a hard time can come on over to the AV for a healthy b!tch slap from my casted hand.

Most everyone here has made a valid point. I think most of us care enough about our sport and our freedom to ride that we would not intentionally do anything to harm the environment. So what's it going to take? Like most of you, I was brought up to clean up after myself and not to leave a trace in the backcountry. Unfortunately, as an entire group (beyond Thumpertalk) we fail at this miserably. Most people see it as, it's easier just to look the other way and not say anything. Not me. If you’re F&%$ing up, I gonna tell you.

I have a YZ426F with an E Series pipe, that's for sale by the way. It is LOUD. I end up having to wear earplugs most of the time, or my head gets to hurtin' after a bit. That's my problem, and I deal with it. As much as I hate to give an inch, after seeing how these commie bastardz are trying to take everything away from us, I just can't see how we cannot address the noise issue. How much is too much? I don't know. I do know that the Politicians are getting their pockets lined by these special interest groups and sooner or later Uncle Sam will tell us that we are too loud. In my experience, Uncle Sam usually overreacts.

It's cool to have a forum to express your views. We need to work together to keep our riding spots open. You and I have just as much a right to be out on the trail as the next guy. The commie bastardz seem to be a little more serious, much more organized, and are willing to put in much more personal time and $$ into keeping us off the trails. We had better get organized my friends. Which organization should you join? I don't know, and I don't know who to trust. I’m an AMA member as well as District 37. Who else do I need to give my money to? How many of you would be willing to give up one Saturday a month to join a group that’s willing to go out and repair trails? I would. Life is about give and take (Yin-Yang) my friends. If we don’t start giving, the greenies and the politicians will be the ones doing the taking.

Peace out


I found two more cents that I haven't spent yet, may as well spend it here.

Overthebars is pretty much on target. I think you should form political action committies and lobby every level of government possible.

Meetings with any enviromental organization has proven futile for many years. They will listen to your arguments and make multipul promises and use them against you. While they continue on to their agenda.

Now that everybody has spoken their mind, they go back to whatever they do. Meanwhile, the Socialist continue with their agenda. You guys will be toast soon. And I am sorry to see it.

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