Harry, nice, very nice...
Dan's still a renegade with his head someplace.... Not only does he have an obnoxious sounding bike but he is from 1000 Oaks as well. & we all know what kind of hot bed for civil unrest that 1000 Oaks has become:P
Just a little humor for a Wednesday morning
Good point Harry! Hey, how many times have we gone to a riding spot and noticed a bunch of garbage laying around left there by previous visitors?. What kind of effort is involved in pulling out a plastic bag and pickin it up? Think I'll start carrying a roll of bags in the truck.
That two people can look at the exact
same thing and see something totally
Each to their own opinion....at the end of the day it all boils down to choice...I choose to ride my Dub-R with certain mods..and I choose to enjoy myself. I also choose to not let anyone else effect those last two choices.
One thing is for sure from these posts... I have now learnt some of the mathematics of Db's
I love you all, your all great blokes.
Curt in Oz.
Does anyone know whatever happened to the "Team Stealth" idea that several of the industry rags promoted abpout 10 years ago? If I had to guess I'd say that IF any of the manufacturers produced a quiet pipe they wouldn'd sell enough to justify the expense of tooling up to produce them. Just my thoughts.
Noise is one issue in a very complex set of issues.
I do what Harry has said above but in my case it's overwhelming. I ride in a place that many refer to as the Disney Land for motorcycles. When we go for rides we usually pick up all the trash around areas that we take breaks at. It's an advantage of having a Dune Buggy in the group. As you read in my post above though, There's only so much one group can do. We do it, our friends do it but there are more that don't do it or that do litter. How can you fix that.
Brian, I cant make up my mind what I like better "Bad apple" or "Renegade", I think I like "Bad apple" better because "Renegade" sounds like a bad TV series starring Chuck Norris! Now THAT guys over the top..........Thousand Oaks is still a great place to live but now we have a Best-Buy and a Cosco, what's this world coming to? Later, Dan
PS. All of this talk has me wondering just how loud all of our bikes REALLY are. I would be curious to see just how quiet (or loud) my renegade WR426 is in comparison to all the rest of you. Im now interested in buying a DB meter to own, kind of like a breathalizer(s?) but for sound. I'll keep you posted. Thanks, BA
[This message has been edited by Dan Lorenze (edited 03-28-2001).]
Puff, Puff, Pass, On Any Sunday, is this movie great or what! Puff, Puff, Pass, Yea look at that malcom guy go!! Puff, Puff, Pass, Wow that tire fire sure does give off alot of smoke, Puff, Puff, cool, Puff, Puff, Pass,this is where he forgets to turn his gas on Puff, Puff ,Pass, Man is his bike loud or what, Puff,Puff yea too loud there ought to be a law, Puff,Puff,Pass Lets start a club,Puff,Puff,,Pass Yea we can call it the Sierra Club,Puff,Puff,Puff, Quiet dirt bikes,Puff,Puff,Pass Yea thats it,Puff,Puff,Pass cool movie where's the munchies....
Well I have been silent for a long time. Reading this post and getting everyones point of view. Enough isn't enough now days. I grew up watching flat track and TT in the 50's. It was at ASCOT park in Gardena CA. We lived about two and a half to three miles away at the time. We could clearly hear the races from home. Then in the 60's I moved with my parents to South Torrance CA. We could hear Lyon's Drag Strip. No one, and I mean no complained. Both places were completely surrounded by residential communities and industrial parks. I find it very interesting how things have changed. What was once tolerable is now considered dasderdly. I can gurantee you that none of your bikes regardless of what kind of exhaust you use short of straight pipes can come even close to the DB level produced at Ascot or Lyons drag strip. People now days are much more intolerant of others. I may be wrong by I think it is directly proportional to the in crease in population and stresses of imposed socialism. When I was a kid growing up in Southern California we would drive to knotts Berry farm in Anaheim from the South Los Angeles area. It was always exciting for me because we had to drive through the country to get there. There was dairy farm after dairy farm all the way. Eventually, the farmers were all driven out by urban expansion. Even as a child I was pissed at how people would move in next to a dairy farm that had existed there for several generations and then complain about the smell and the flies. They eventually had enough political clout to drive the farmer off their land and away from their homes. In the 60's my grandmother lived in Palmdale, then Lancaster, and later Little Rock. All these places just north of Los Angeles in the desert. In the summer I would go to visit her and ride my 1956 BSA 2 stroke 125 in the surrounding desert. Even then the early Environ whackos were beginnig to rummble. There was open desert between Palmdale and Lancaster. But, if you go there now you can't tell where one city ends and the other begins. In all my years of off-roading I have never ever seen off-road organization deforest the side of a mountain in order to make a hill climb. Can the same be said about a ski resort? Or, how about a golf course in the middle of the desert. Where by the way it is necessary to kill everything that moves to preserve and protect the course from errant rodents including the Kangeroo rats! My friends, I too am a conservationist. I love this the desert and the mountains more than anyone can imagine. But, beware! There are leader and followers in the Green movement. The followers are followers. But, the leaders have an agenda. I don't pretend to completely understand or know what it is but this much I do know. It goes far beyond simply protecting the environment. Any reasonable person can easily identify environmental threats far more agregious and life threatning than off-roading. We hardly hear these being mentioned. Over-population is certainly causing additional stress. However, on a recent trip to Arizona I was again reminded at how much open land this country still has. It is totally uncessary to cram 20 million plus people into Los Angeles and Orange County! But it does make for a good and concentrated political base! Well I might be getting off track here. I will leave you with this thought. If you are going to comprimise do so with care and wisdom. Create a yard stick for yourselves. Ask how much of your freedom are you willing to give up. Where do you draw the line in the sand. And, when meeting with greenies remember this . As someone once said "Any problem can be rendered unsolvable if enough meetings are held to discuss it." Keep up the debate and live! P
This is amazing (and very sad) to read. I live in England, but I've got family in Vancouver, Canada. I visit Canada and the USA as often as possible and one of the things I love the most about the two countries is the wide open areas, and the freedom and access you enjoy to the land. Whenever I come home to England, I'm depressed by the fact that everything here has a fence around it. Getting any access to any land is virtually impossible unless the landowner happens to be pro bikes or Jeeps. Even the network of public footpaths and 'green lanes' is now under threat from landowners. They use the environmental argument to keep you away, then sell the land to property developers to build shopping malls and 'executive homes'.
Getting back to the original post, I'm not sure the issue is 'noisy' bikes. Noise is too subjective. You can't legislate around someones perception. People will complain about 'noisy' bikes if the bikes are where they don't want them to be in the first place. Quiet bikes is not going to pacify these people.
Just to demonstrate the intolerance, one of the guys I ride with lives in the country next to a farm. A rich guy has bought three ajoining cottages and knocked it all through into one huge house. He has now had a writ served on the farmer, cos the guy's tractor left mud on the road which dirtied the rich guy's £60K Mercedes.
I'm sorry that I've said all this, but don't have any answers. All I can say is that you guys over there really need to pull together and fight everything they try and push on you.
Good luck fellas.
(A pissed off Brit, grounded cos of Foot and Mouth)
'00 WR400F, YZ Timing, FMF Power Core IV2, Renthal Bars.
I agree with you all the way David, I think that the greens will always have something to complain about until we are all wiped out completly, YES we could meet on common ground with them, we could detune our bikes with silent exhaust systems and use street tires, and I would do it if that meant that they would stop the land closures. But I have a strong belief that it would'nt stop and we'll put ourselves even more behind.. Dan
pmaust - You have brought back some great memories for me. I grew up in Torrance and spent many hours at both Ascot and Lions. Was fortunate to attend one of the last sprint car events at Ascot, since I now live in Washington, the state, not "other" one.
Those were great times and Southern California WAS a great place to grow up (actually I've never grown up, just matured ) and live in. Still have family there and visit usually once a year. And try and take in some event or ride if I can. It is a great place to visit but I wouldn't move back for any amount of money. Far to many people and the pace of life is not to my liking. Prefer to keep my fast "pace" to my 2 wheel endeavors.
pmaust,I think that you are right in your feeling that people are a lot less tolerant than they used to be.Increased population is certainly part of it,as well as the everyday stress of modern life.I can't comment on the"imposed socialism" that you mention,but I know that you (and others on this B.B.) perceive a threat and that the political climate is different in your part of the world than mine.One thing that's for sure is the fact that things are very,very different now than they were 50 yrs ago. I can't think of one aspect of life that hasn't changed over that period of time,or won't change again in another 50 years. However,I think you'll agree that lamenting the passing of a by-gone time is not the answer.We can not re-create the past,nor should we try to.What used to be considered acceptable behaviour, is no longer acceptable,and often with good reason.I believe that we live in a better world now than ever before,and I think that it will get better yet.Yes, the greenies have an agenda - so what? We have an agenda too-all we need are people willing to work towards our goals.There's enough of us, we're smart enough,if we want it bad enough and we pull together,I know we can garner enough public support to beat the greenies. We've created our own problem by leaving them unopposed for so long.Most of the greenies are not seriously committed to their cause, they would likely crumble if they came up on the wrong side of public opinion.Everyone on this forum needs to forget about how things were.Look at how things are now,and dream about how you would like them to be in the future.Now think about what you can do now to realize that dream as reality.If you can't think of any way to work towards your dream,or help the state of off-roading,then you're not trying hard enough.Look in this post,and others for ideas if need be.There has been talk of picking up garbage especially in parking areas used by off-roaders.Great idea. Organize a trail ride(or take part in one) that benefits a local charity and make damn sure the media knows about it.Even better, find someone in the media that is willing to try dirt biking or take part in a charity ride and report on it.Set them (and their spouse & kids)up with bikes,gear,whatever it takes,and show them a great time.Leave the beer at home.Show local governments the positive economic impact that off-roading has.Find local businesses like restaurants or gas stations(not just bike dealers)that benefit from off-road activities and ask the owner to petition his local government representative to keep riding areas open. Nothing like the almighty dollar and a tax-paying business owner's concerns to make a politician sit up and take notice.If you encounter other trail users when out riding at the very least slow down or stop and yield the right of way to them.Even better shut your bike off,remove your helmet and talk with them.Horse back riders will really appreciate this more than anyone as it generally puts the horses at ease.Comment on the weather,the quality of the trail, compliment mountian bikers on thier equipment-whatever it takes to find some common ground,just be friendly,even if they are not.There are a million other ways we can improve the public's perception of who we are and what we are all about.Believe this -EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS! Sorry for being so long-winded and running wide of the original topic.Which reminds me,like it or not,one easy way that we can all do our part to change public opinion about us is to ride quiet bikes.
Thanks WRROCK. We were lucky to grow up there but like you I have moved on and away from paridise lost. Pete Z. I am not trying to relive the past. But as has been stated before "those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it..." or something like that. My concern here is that there may be some over reaction to a perceieved threat. Now, having said that don't misunderstand me. I don't like loud pipes just for the sake of making a lot of noise or to be rude like the jerks who play their boom boxes wide open in public. My concern is that the collective "WE" off-roaders may be too willing to make concessions or be to reactionary. If you are willing to comprimise on the noise your bike makes what do YOU/WE expect in return for such a concession? Should this concession be accross the board? Maybe, maybe not! Remember that public land does not belong to the Sierra Club or any other group. It belongs to us all! Therefore, when we comprimise something we should expect to get something back in return(like no threat of trail closure in sonically sensitive areas.) In my previous post I mentioned ASCOT raceway and Lyons drag strip. Nastalgic yes but the point is where did they go? Or, more importantly where do you go to build a drag strip so as not to disturb the neighbors? Out in the desert seems like a good place. But no! You can't do that! You need an environmental impact report first. You might displace a Kangeroo rats habitat or get in the way of a desert tortise wondering aimlessly across the desert in search of god knows what. Even though there are literally hundreds if not thousands of square miles for the tortise to roam and the rat to build. You just simply cannot take away a quarter mile of land for mere human consumption. Furthermore, dragsters are gross polluters and make way too much noise. Plus the money wasted on that could be put to better use. Besides it might draw too many people out to the desert area and since CalTrans is no longer building new roads because of all the environmental issues, it will cause increased conjestion thereby making it more difficult for the cactus huggers to get to their destinations. I know I sound a little rediculus here but I'm not far off. We are not dealing with rational people in the first place. Why should we be so damn willing to jump through hoops to please them? A fair comprimise is that in mountain areas that are near resorts, homes, horse trails, non-biking camp grounds et cetera there should be noise limitations. Out in the middle of the desert where you are miles from the nearest anything except for the gunnery range or fighter jet test site etc etc... Bike noise shouldn't be so stringent. Wouldn't that make more sense? If you start giving away the store and don't DEMAND that in return your rights be preserved in the form of land set asides of a suitable kind for off-roading and anything else we think we might need then they will have no qualms about taking it all away from us. Comprimise but don't roll over and play dead or you surely will be! I agree with you that we need to improve our collective image. I will gladly support anything that does that. I will also be pro-active in that arena. But the last time I checked I was a citizen in good standing in this country entitled to all the rights and privilages thereof. I refuse to let a bunch of intolerant back stabbing haters ride rough shod over me! We may not all agree but we definitely need to stand united but firm in our resolve. Today its loud pipes. Tomorrow it will be knobby tires....that has come up before! I have been around long enough to remember. Sorry for being so long winded. P
pmaust, Man, Im speechless!!! That was probably the most well written post that I have ever seen on this site, maybe its because you've said everything that I've wanted to say. What a nice way to start a Friday!! Thanks,Dan Lorenze
I agree Dan, that was the best one to date. One rule we should remember, if you give up one of your rights, you will soon have none.
Hang in there guys we have only just begun to fight! P.
And not to open a can of worms here.
I'm an NRA member. I realize that the money I give goes toward legislation against gun control. I own three firearms, a handgun for protection, a shot gun for bird hunting and a high powered rifle for large game.
I also beleive that there is very little reason to own a fully automatic weapon or any para military weapon (read: my personal beleif, not imposing on yours). But I also understand that if we do allow the government to control those firearms. The control WILL NOT stop there.
Please let's not get off topic due to my choice in owning firearms.
All of this talk has made me think about my E-Series w/12 discs.
And now pmaust, has made me think about control, concession and where does it end?
Aside from being members of the AMA, Blue Ribbon coalition and voicing our opinions on polls.
What can we proactivly do, as individuals and as a collective group? I already pick up trash, vote when possible and give to groups that fight for our rights as OHV'ers.
Bill, Pete Z has some good thoughts and ideas. Here are some things we can all do.
1. Image - Lets work on that. Lets get together with local bike clubs, private groups and so on to organize charity runs and races. Let talk with Blue Ribbon and AMA about doing this as well.
2. I am not a member of any bike club..Maybe I should be. But, we could encourage our clubs to get more involved in our communities through charitable events, being big brothers /sisters and giving kids who otherwise might not get a chance to get involved in our sport. Take a kid to a Motocross event or X-game. You get my drift?
3. In local and state fairs bike clubs could set up a booth. Lets get together with AMA/DistrictXX/Blueribbon and put together material that shows how we care about our environment and what we are doing about it. We do volunteer work to help maintain trails..Lets put together pamlets with pictures to distribute to the population at large.
4. How about fund raisers to raise money for our cause. Money that could go to Blueribbon, AMA, legal defence funds et cetera. Grassroots support begins one person at a time.
5. Lets not forget to include out buddies who spend most if not all their time on the DR or YZ etc sides of ThumperTalk. There is strength in numbers. Somehow when an issue comes up that affects us all we all need to know about it so we can pool our resources.
There are other off-road forums as well. Let s cross polinate with them. Also, with 4 wheel clubs, gun clubs, boaters, jet skiers, and anyone else whose rights are threatened. Somehow we need a forum to pull all of us together for the common cause of preserving our freedoms. The more brains, money and resources we put together the better. Divided we fall united we stand a much better chance(the old strength in numbers thing).
6. Go on the offensive...We need to start producing reports that reflect a balanced view of what we do. That challege junk science and wild claims about the environment. What do you guys know about the desert tortise? Is it nocturnal? Does it hibernate in the winter time when we would most likely be riding in the desert? I don't know either but I can garuntee you that I will learn because knowlege is our friend. We must be willing to make sound and reasoned rebuttle to hate mongering and extremism.
Hope this helps. Also, if you get any good ideas of things to try make sure you pass it along to the rest of us. Thanks, Paul M.
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