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new take on the valve problems

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After nearly three seasons, my valves have finally went bad.

At first I just figured it was normal wear and tear and inevitable on the hondas. But as I get deeper into the project this is what I am starting to realize.

Until about 3 or 4 rides back (3-4 hr trail rides), I never had any starting issues. Around 5 or 6 rides ago I switched to no toil filter cleaning system. After my first no toil use, I noticed a thin film on the inside of my airboot, but figured maybe I needed to use more oil so I started oiling it much heavier. The next time I cleaned my filter, I noticed my glue on my filter was starting to fail/dissolve. The dealer told me that the glue dissolving was because I used to use mineral spirits to wash my filters. Sounded reasonable at the time.

I then purchased two new honda filters and kept on with the no-toil treatments as many people feel it is a good system.

Now after pulling one of the new filters out for its third cleaning, it is completely falling apart. never had a problem with this on my cr125 or cr250 and I always used mineral spirits or kerosene to clean them.

I take the carb slide out of the top of the carb and there is a sludge all over in the top, like really fine dust mixed with oil/gasoline residue. I have taken the top of the carb out in the past when changing the needle and always had a slight gasoline residue, but never this on any of my bikes.

My theory is that the no toil is not stopping the fine particles as well as the true filter oils that I used to use ( Klotz and /or maxima). Maybe the majority of the people that are happy with no-toil are track riders where dust is minimal and filters are changed for every race, but for long trail rides (3 or 4 hrs, upto 100miles, and dusty conditions) it isnt working well.

Not saying that no-toil is the causing the problems on all the crfs, but maybe the problem is more correlated to poorly oiled filters.

Needless to say, I will be going back to the messy clean up aerosol spray oils.

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I have the problem with the UNI filter coming apart while using the No Toil.. I took the filter to UNI and they said its the alcohol in the No Toil that eats at the glue... I don't really know.. It seems that gas or kerosine would eat the glue also??? I got Amsoil as a sponsor now and I am using their spray on air filter tack oil.. Seems to work well. cleans up with Oxy clean ... I used No Toil in my yz262F without any troubles for 3 years and still in spec... ?????????

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I've had problems with No Toil a couple years back on my '02 CRF. In my experiences it does not stop the really fine dust particles - like you would find riding in real powdery dirt.

I don't use No Toil anymore. Whenever I used it, I would find dust in the air boot, even after I installed a PC Racing seal kit. I didn't really care for their filter either, it doesn't fit as well as the stock filter, in my opinion.

I went back to Bel Ray filter oil. Nothing gets by that stuff.

On both of my CRFs I went with the stock filter and Bel Ray filter oil, and have not had any dust in the air boot since.

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That would be enough evidence for me. I've said before that the Honda filter looks like a pretty well thought out, effective design to me. I use Belray, but I clean mine with Dawn with Oxy Clean and water. You have to let it sit for about a half an hour to let it break up the oil, but it works. I've seen enough negative posts about No Toil not to use it. Nothing is getting past mine.

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I've been using the stock Honda filters since day one.Cleaning with just about anything I've got around.Including this water based parts cleaner we've got at the shop,works well.Rinse clean with water and let dry.Was using the Honda Pro oil until they decided to go "green" with it.Now I use the BelRay oil.Like he said nothing gets past that.I'm at 170 hours on the original intakes.One adjustment at 6 hours to the left intake.I guess it helps that I use the mid range and rarely see the rev limiter.Ah,the benefits of being slow. :banghead:

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Oh yeah a clean filter every ride.Have two and always rotate a clean one in.In fact I gotta do that today.

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I have 2 CRF450 motors used strictly for motocross. I have always used No toil filters, No Toil oil and use oxyclean to clean the filters. I've never had any valve issues. I've also never seen any dirt in the air boot.

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While I'm not riding a CRF, I have been riding in some pretty rotten conditions. I've been running twin air filters on my XR from day one, and I've been using twin air cleaning solution and filter oil (not the bio-degradable type). "Knock on wood," I've never had any issue with my filters (no glued seam failures) and never the slightest infiltration of dust / dirt. Take into account that I've spent my time at the back of the pack eating quite a bit of dust. The only other thing I'd like to say is that you need to wash your filter with dish soap and water after you clean it in the solvent. If you skip the soap / water step, I'd imagine that the solvent sitting on it will do damage over time.

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I use the No Toil cleaning system, the evo friendly kind, and I don't like it at all. I will not be purchasing anymore. I have been using the stock Honda filters and I too have been experiencing the separating of the foam. I don't like the cleaner or the filter oil. :banghead: In the future I am going with the Bel Ray filter oil, but I am undecided on the cleaner thus far.

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They did a comparision of all the filter oils and cleaners in one of last months dirt bike mags. I think it was DirtRider, anyway they said that No Toil will make you filter start to fall apart. But that is only on bikes that sit for some time between rides, not having the filter cleaned in a month or so. They made it seem like if you don't clean it once a week or so it will start to do that.

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My brother in laws filter on his KX which was a Uni basically turned into goo when it sat for 2 years without being ridden or maintained at all. It was oiled with Maxima FFT. It looked ok, but when I touched it, it stuck to my finger and a big piece came off...it was a huge mess...and was a huge pain in the ass to clean up.

Ive got no idea what happened/s to foam filters when they sit, but I have a feeling its something to do with the atmosphere. I had a couple speakers in the garage that had foam suspension around the edge of the cones. The foam went to hell and just disintegrated. It was dry and dark where the speaker was kept too...Same thing with a pair of goggles I found under the seat of the truck...they'd been there at least 4 years...they just disintegrated when I pulled them from beneath the seat...

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For those of you who had anthing get past your filter with No Toil on it, were you using the spray on or the pour on oil?

I've been using the No Toil pour on on oil on my stock filter without any issues. I also use their cleaner. I've got at least 100 hours on my bike and no valve problems yet. I've also riden in some very dusty areas, and gone over a month between filter cleanings.

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For those of you who had anthing get past your filter with No Toil on it, were you using the spray on or the pour on oil?

I've been using the No Toil pour on on oil on my stock filter without any issues. I also use their cleaner. I've got at least 100 hours on my bike and no valve problems yet. I've also riden in some very dusty areas, and gone over a month between filter cleanings.

In that comparision I noted above, they found that the NoToil Pour on was a better covering, and stickier oil. Than the NoToil spray on.

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been using my Solvent Tank to clean Air Filters for MANY yrs (mostly HOnda's but Yammys too and others) and PJ1 Filter oil-never had any Filter probs etc...

All stock Filters w/PJ1 Spray Filter oil and Solvent Tank-all good!

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I've been using Klotz foam filter oil for over 8 years now with absolutely no problems. It won't dry out and is very tacky. Never had any reason to try anything else. I use Simple Green to clean my filters. Just spray it on and work it into the filter. Let it sit for 15 to 20 minutes and then rinse it out with warm water.

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For those of you who had anthing get past your filter with No Toil on it, were you using the spray on or the pour on oil?

I've been using the No Toil pour on on oil on my stock filter without any issues. I also use their cleaner. I've got at least 100 hours on my bike and no valve problems yet. I've also riden in some very dusty areas, and gone over a month between filter cleanings.

A month between filter cleanings. :banghead: I will fully clog a filter to were the bikr doe'nt run very well 1/2 through the day. What you speak of is not dust. I use twin air filters and no toil oil / cleaner for awhile with out problems. But it was never in very dusty area's. I am doing intake valves now because of dirt but it got in between the filter and air box do to the air box warping. It sounds like I might be switching oils now.

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A month is the max. I gone since I bought the bike in April. Ocassionally I've gone a month without riding in a dusty environment. I live where it rains a lot.

I have riden in heavy dust conditions. I rode the Desert 100 in Eastern Washington, and I just rode the Dick Jagow GP at Washougal yesterday. My filter is completely black. Maybe not as bad as some areas, but bad enough to test the filter.

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Sorry, but the air filter is not the problem, it's the composition of the valves and/or seats.

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