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440kit feedback?

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Hello,

I am thinking about going the 440 kit upgrade (Wiseco). Just after some feedback from people that upgraded to a 440 kit (and more importantly Wiseco).

How has it been for you? No problems?

How much of a power increase did you get?

What are the advantages / disadvantages?

What would you do in a situation where you have to get a new piston / rebore. If it was $400 cheaper to get the 440kit because you don’t have to buy a new cylinder, would you get the 440 or go back to stock, as everything is genuine?

Thanks for your help.

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I have a 440 kit, actually 439 with a 13.5cr weisco piston. The bore/sleeve/replate was done by millinium technologies. It is the only way to go. Stay away from iron liners, make sure it is aluminum.

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Funny that you say stay away from the iron liners.

every one says that but they are not the ones that have.

some so far have talked about this but as far as I know they have not had it.

so far there are only two people that have had them.

and it was not explained what the problem has been.

debris from sandblasting on the frame painting caused some damage to a iron liner 470 as far as can figure from the notes...?>?>?>?>

but there has be alot of good conversations on this.

some of the problems have been from sleeving procedures

DONE THE CORRECT WAY this will not be a problem

if this is installed by someone that does not know the correct procedures

then this WILL be a problem.

Best thing to do is what you want but do in correct.

if you are not mechanically or specialist machinery inclined get someone who is to do it as you will get the quality in more ways than one.

Best part is ride the bike, they are very nice, fun machines....

best to be driven as often as possible.

:banghead:

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I think that was a vote in favour of iron liners. they dont transfer heat out of the piston quite as well but have been used for a century without problems.

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Hello,

I am thinking about going the 440 kit upgrade (Wiseco). Just after some feedback from people that upgraded to a 440 kit (and more importantly Wiseco).

How has it been for you? No problems?

How much of a power increase did you get?

What are the advantages / disadvantages?

What would you do in a situation where you have to get a new piston / rebore. If it was $400 cheaper to get the 440kit because you don’t have to buy a new cylinder, would you get the 440 or go back to stock, as everything is genuine?

Thanks for your help.

Ok, you're gonna get beat up bad for asking anything about iron liners. :banghead:

I installed the Wiseco 440 kit about 1.5-yrs ago. Yes, I went with the iron

liner. The trick is, you have to have a VERY experienced machine shop do

the cylinder work for you. If it's done half-ass, you can expect problems.

The shop I used here in town has been building and racing big bore bikes,

quads and snow machines for nearly 30-years.

Here's my personal experience:

My DRZ went from a bike with silky-smooth power to a bike that had a

pull-your-arms-out-of-their-sockets sort of bike. The power is so strong that

it mimmicks the feel of my brother's '03 WR450. In fact, my DRZ out pulled

his WR in a drag race. :banghead:

HP increase? Definitely, but I can't tell you how much. From what I am told

by the shop that did my work, the increase is between 5-7HP. Accurate?

I don't know, but it feels more like 10hp!

The advantages are that the kit is inexpensive. I saved about $150 over the

MT kit. The job could be done locally and the turn around was less.

Disadvantages...non that I can see yet. Are you taking cylinder back 15-yrs

in technology? Yep, you sure are but our cars we drive everyday are using

the same technology.

There have been arguments that the iron liners can't dissipate the heat like

aluminum and that's true. However, I did not notice any increase in heat AND

to this day, have not had ANY overheating issues. Slow and go on the Slick

Rock in Moab and the bike never boils or purculates(sp?)

If you're satisfied with the stock power, stay with the original setup. If the

stock power ain't enough for you, go 440. If you can afford to go with the

MT setup, then definitely go that route. If you're like me and the budget

didn't allow for the extra $$ of the MT, then you'll be fine with the Wiseco

so long as you have a competent machine shop.

It's only been 1.5-yrs on mine and it's still going strong. For how long I don't

know but given my experience so far I'd probably go that route again.

I have a spair cylinder so, if my iron cyl gives me trouble in the near future,

I'll send the spair to MT for a good plating...

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VPR you do not read very well.if you can not convey good info please do not pm me any further.

the case you talk about are from TT members only.i was very clear about other cases ive dealt with.

do what you want,but when the iron liner set up fails you will be the first to step up and say here on TT right?

or should we just stay quite and let you believe you on the frontier of drz development.

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If Burned told me not to use an iron liner I would not use an iron liner. That being said I would go with either a MT kit or a Lukes Racing kit. I'm thinking of going with the Lukes Racing as it is cheaper.

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.

DONE THE CORRECT WAY this will not be a problem

::

How wrong you are, go ahead get the iron liner, we will see your bike parted on e-bay in the near future. :banghead::banghead:

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How wrong you are, go ahead get the iron liner, we will see your bike parted on e-bay in the near future. :banghead::banghead:

What's the worst that can happen? Smoke and use oil? Hardly worth parting

it out for. And for the record, if mine fails because of the iron liner, I'll be the

first to step up and admit it!

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What's the worst that can happen? Smoke and use oil? Hardly worth parting

it out for. And for the record, if mine fails because of the iron liner, I'll be the

first to step up and admit it!

I have no doubt that you will tell us if it fails, I was commenting on a subject I have NOT experienced as I went with al. 440, so sorry I will step away from this one. My intentions were not to insult you at all. :banghead:

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NO sweat boys! It can't be that bad...as I already admitted to getting my

butt kicked by the black breather box... :banghead:

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heres the deal.VPR asked for my advice/feed back.i replied in a lengthy pm what my experience has been with iron liners.

basically what it comes down with me is this.im more than happy to help.however if anyone disagrees or flat just thinks i dont know what im talking about than please dont waste my time.do what you want,take your chances and leave me out of it.

in other words dont ask my advice than blow me off like im a idiot.

not to much ask right?

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Having met Burned personally at this shop and seeing that he is knee deep in MC guts and modifying motors day in and day out, I think he is well qualified to render a highly knowledgeable opinion on the subject what works and what doesn't from his sheer vast experience. Most of us are hobbyists. This guy is a tuner/mechanic and does this for a living. I am glad to live near him, as a good MC mechanic is extraordinarily hard to find. :banghead:

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Let me start by saying I have absolutely no experience with any of this. I don't know what the issues are with iron liners. But seems to me having a cylinder that holds heat is a good thing. In racing applications aluminum cylinders, pistons, and heads are coated with ceramic to reduce heat transfer. When hottrodding a car, swapping the iron heads for aluminum will save some weight but you will make less power (if the ports and chambers are the same). Engines are powered by burning gas, most of the energy is turned straight to heat and carried away by the cooling system. The more you can insulate the combustion chamber the less heat is lost and the more energy there is to push down the piston. Again, I am no expert and I don't know if this is "the reason" iron liners are bad. I'm just saying that, based on what little I know, the insulating properties of iron aren't necessarily a bad thing.

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Let me start by saying I have absolutely no experience with any of this. I don't know what the issues are with iron liners. But seems to me having a cylinder that holds heat is a good thing. In racing applications aluminum cylinders, pistons, and heads are coated with ceramic to reduce heat transfer. When hottrodding a car, swapping the iron heads for aluminum will save some weight but you will make less power (if the ports and chambers are the same). Engines are powered by burning gas, most of the energy is turned straight to heat and carried away by the cooling system. The more you can insulate the combustion chamber the less heat is lost and the more energy there is to push down the piston. Again, I am no expert and I don't know if this is "the reason" iron liners are bad. I'm just saying that, based on what little I know, the insulating properties of iron aren't necessarily a bad thing.
I'll have what ever he's on!!!

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This is too funny. 🤣 One guy signed on Aug 2005 and the other Sept 2005 and they have it all figured out. 🤣

What could burned possibly know over these guys? :banghead: What has he ever contibuted here? :banghead:

Mike

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excellent i highly suggest you drain the coolant from your bike and ride.

No one likes a smart ass.

I am open minded and value any input I can get, especially when it comes from real world experience. Sarcastic comments don't help the learning process. I'm not making this shit up. What other purpose would ceramic coating provide? Why else would aluminum heads make less power? If I'm wrong then explain why I'm wrong. I value knowledge more than being right which is why I like "open" discusion forums like these.

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