Fuel Injection

[Dan250]

This morning I decided to call Yamaha U.S. to ask them when off road motorcycles would be seeing fuel injection and all the benefits it would bring, possably more green stickers too. Customer relations took the call and about an hour later called back. He spoke to their technician and he said it will be a natural progression but has not heard news on this. I can't wait until they do, just thought I would pass it on.

[SUnruh]

the new 700 Raptor (squidpod) has it now for 06.

it will probably be on oem bikes before '10.

[Doug.]

the new 700 Raptor (squidpod) has it now for 06.

Here's some more information on that bike.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/439/0/home.aspx

[Kaptain]

Gas Gas is doing it pretty succesfully on their new 450. The rest of the bike is lacking but it sounds like the fuel injection works perfectly. Honda built the motor in the new Montessa trials bike and it works great as well from what I hear. It's only a matter of time before jetting and latitude problems are a thing of the past. Then we will all be using "mod chips" as hop-ups.

[roostboy wr250f]

Gas Gas is doing it pretty succesfully on their new 450. The rest of the bike is lacking but it sounds like the fuel injection works perfectly. Honda built the motor in the new Montessa trials bike and it works great as well from what I hear. It's only a matter of time before jetting and latitude problems are a thing of the past. Then we will all be using "mod chips" as hop-ups.

Better name for Gas Gas, Junk Junk

[RiderX]

Expect the sticker prices to go up considerably when they go to fuel injection....and the aftermarket upgrades will be through the roof as well. I'm suprized the sticker only went up $800 from last years 660 carbed Raptor. You'll probably have to buy a digital programmer, or data logging and tuning software/hardware for your laptop to tune your bike.

[yz250ftony]

Can't you put the raptor 700 intake onto a yfz450 just detuned? How about a smaller injector. The fuel system would have to be swapped too.

[696]

Honda is suppose to have it figured out as well, heard it from a mag article.

696

[treehopper]

Better name for Gas Gas, Junk Junk

I'm interested in hearing the problems you've had with all the GasGas bikes that you've owned to prompt you to call them junk.

[geomoney]

Me too. I've had 4 different Gas Gas bikes over the past 5 years, in addition to a number of YZF's. Although Gas Gas quality is not up to par with Yamaha's, I've yet to run across any problems to where I'd call them junk.

[Polar_Bus]

This morning I decided to call Yamaha U.S. to ask them when off road motorcycles would be seeing fuel injection and all the benefits it would bring, possably more green stickers too. Customer relations took the call and about an hour later called back. He spoke to their technician and he said it will be a natural progression but has not heard news on this. I can't wait until they do, just thought I would pass it on.

It's only a matter of time. Snowmobiles have had direct, and semi direct injection for about 3 years now. There are a few Polaris ATV's that have had it for 2 years. It's a superior fuel delivery system over carbs. I'm sure fuel injection is heavy into developement on dirtbikes at this time, but no factory will say anything right now for fear of "info leak" and a rival company stealing technology.

[dennis woods]

some of the mopeds coming over from asia are fuel injected,anywhere from 50 to 250 cc.some of the two stroke mopeds they have over there are direct injected!!!all the jap manufacturers have been manufacturing engines and bikes in china etc and the mopeds are way advanced.you can buy a 4 stroke fuel injected moped here right now cheap.they will improve our bikes performance greatly i think,just more money[high pressure fuel pump,elect. power to run pump and injecter etc]electric start bikes with a battery will be easier to fuel inject.jmho.the big direct injected 2 stroke outboards outpower,better fuel economy,and cleaner running than some of their four stroke competition.

[Jim X]

Expect the sticker prices to go up considerably when they go to fuel injection....and the aftermarket upgrades will be through the roof as well. I'm suprized the sticker only went up $800 from last years 660 carbed Raptor. You'll probably have to buy a digital programmer, or data logging and tuning software/hardware for your laptop to tune your bike.

God I hope the price doesn't go up .

I would see no need to buy a digital programmer for tuning, etc. The fuel map would probably be a closed loop system that self adjusts. I am sure there will be companies that would supply this to anybody that is willing to buy it$$$, but the gains would be minimal

[ovrrdrive]

Expect the sticker prices to go up considerably when they go to fuel injection....and the aftermarket upgrades will be through the roof as well. I'm suprized the sticker only went up $800 from last years 660 carbed Raptor. You'll probably have to buy a digital programmer, or data logging and tuning software/hardware for your laptop to tune your bike.

You're missing the point here... The beauty of FI is that you won't have to tune the bike. It will just run like it was designed to regardless of atmospheric conditions or altitude. You'll be able to buy power commanders if you want to and they allow you to load custom maps if that's your fancy, but even they are just a few hundred bucks.

My understanding of FI is that if you mod the airbox and put a better pipe on it, the FI compensates the fuel mixture automatically. You can tweak it as much, or as little as you want to.

I can't wait for FI to come out on the bikes. I may even upgrade that year.

[Jim X]

You'll be able to buy power commanders if you want to and they allow you to load custom maps if that's your fancy, but even they are just a few hundred bucks.

C'mon don't give the powersports industry too much credit. Have you taken a gander at the prices of a muffler lately? Is there any reason to have a bent steel tube, rivets, another tube with holes, some fiberglass, an endcap and a sheet of aluminum cost over 300 dollars? What about a bent peice of steel tubing with a flange welded on, otherwise known as a header costing $200. It's bogus but people pay that price and they pay it happily, just for a seat of the pants dyno, and usually without JETTING.

But yeah, the bikes are already topped out on performance, there isn't much you can adjust that will actually help you unless you increase compression and use race gas then have your motor ported, etc. etc. But all of that still doesn't involve remapping your CDI.

[ovrrdrive]

C'mon don't give the powersports industry too much credit. Have you taken a gander at the prices of a muffler lately? Is there any reason to have a bent steel tube, rivets, another tube with holes, some fiberglass, an endcap and a sheet of aluminum cost over 300 dollars? What about a bent peice of steel tubing with a flange welded on, otherwise known as a header costing $200. It's bogus but people pay that price and they pay it happily, just for a seat of the pants dyno, and usually without JETTING.

But yeah, the bikes are already topped out on performance, there isn't much you can adjust that will actually help you unless you increase compression and use race gas then have your motor ported, etc. etc. But all of that still doesn't involve remapping your CDI.

I'm a little confused here...

Do you think I'm making this shit up here or what?

http://www.powercommander.com/416-411.shtml

You can get a PCIII for a Raptor already for $332. Sorry I didn't look up the exact price before I posted it, but I didn't think anyone would care enough to call me out like this. Power commanders are big business and have been for years.

Do they make a huge difference?

Heh, no, I'm sure they don't. But they give you the ability to customize the fuel delivery for your combination of mods and riding style and to some that's obviously worth the $332. I would think a PCIII would make at least as big of a difference as a hotter plug, cutting the blue wire or even modding the intake - which are all mods performed on a regular basis that some swear by.

Not sure what your problem with my post was here... But I'll tell you what. When I get my FI YZ450 in a few years, I'll also buy a PCIII for it and I'll let you know if I think it is worth the money. I'll even give you pics of it so you don't think I'm making it up.

[Polar_Bus]

My understanding of FI is that if you mod the airbox and put a better pipe on it, the FI compensates the fuel mixture automatically. You can tweak it as much, or as little as you want to.

I can't wait for FI to come out on the bikes. I may even upgrade that year.

Well, yes only to a certain point. I can tell you from experience from a streetbike standpoint. Factory stock EFI mapping can handle the extra fuel of a performance exhaust, but thats it. Once people start adding, say a K&N filter, modding the airbox, etc... the stock EFI mapping can't handle that amount of added airflow. The magic with EFI, is you can generally download a "performance map" and upload it into the ECU on your bike! Many factories do this, and many aftermarket performance EFI units can do this also. The K&N Power Commander is a perfect example. You go to there website, key in your specific bike, and the will have as many as 5 different levels of EFI mapping. Maybe with respect to "competition" motorcycles, my whole comment might not apply as a YZF with EFI might very well have totally adjustable mapping right off the showroom floor, but this is currently how EFI works in streetbikes.

[Jim X]

ovrrdrive, it wasn't my intention to get anyone's feathers ruffled, I am a pretty easy going guy and am not afraid to admit when I have goofed. I had not heard of power commanders and I am glad that they are a decent price. I was thinking they would be more around $600. Around $350 is a much more fair price than I thought the industry would supply them at.

However I still maintain that there would be no reason to upgrade the stock ECU with an aftermarket adjustable one. These are race bikes that are race tuned, and the ECU will be no different. They will self adjust and everything will be dandy. If you are a pro racer that has his motor rebuilt every race you would see a slight performance increase, but I don't even consider that as being even close to mainstream.

Everyone that is a pro racer please raise thier hand.....yeah me either.

EDIT: And, yes I would like to see pictures of any of your fuel injected bikes they should be beaut's, I will be drooling, a lot.

[Yak]

Wasn't the stort lived Cannondale fuel injected?

[tranqwhl]

However I still maintain that there would be no reason to upgrade the stock ECU with an aftermarket adjustable one. These are race bikes that are race tuned, and the ECU will be no different. They will self adjust and everything will be dandy. If you are a pro racer that has his motor rebuilt every race you would see a slight performance increase, but I don't even consider that as being even close to mainstream.

I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, so it is with the greatest respect that I must disagree. I am a club level road racer, and almost all new bikes now have fuel injection. Still, almost EVERY club racer goes out and buys a Power Commander for it, so they can change their maps (based on the pipe they're using, etc).

Maybe I'll be wrong, when dirt bikes all have FI, maybe we won't need to buy an aftermarket box for them... I hope not. But if the trend follows road racing trends, we will all be looking for Power Commanders when we modify our motors.