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OK, Need you TECH HEADS

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ok,

I have an 04 X and have ridden it hard all year in Harescambles.

I have one race left.

I have reshimmed it 1 race ago, it was not bad only one intake and one exhaust needed to be shimmed (each were only 2 off from spec) all other (the other 2 were perfect). Ran the race worked great, the following week all was good, started on the second kick ran fine all day.

I left to go to Texas for my company to get a few of our sites back up after the storm (bike has not been ridden for 2 weeks). Bike sat up on the bike stand. Came back changed oil/filter, change tranny oil and did all normal prep work before a race (race was canceled). Thus did not run it this past weekend, today on a Monday I went to fire it up (rain stopped) and it would not start at all. A few maybe 2 or 3 big back fires out of 30+ kicks or so, and trying the e-start (choke on/off, tried the hot start as well). Finally got it going via the pop-start method and ran fine. Let the bike sit for 3 hours (just tried to get it going) and it wont fire again, did have one large backfire. Not sure what’s going on. I cant believe the valves went that fast, and the fact it fired up just fine the previous time I started it makes it hard to figure out.

I have checked the pink breather tube, a little goo in there but not much at all (has started fine with a lot more in it).

Talked to a friend of mine who is a mechanic and he is baffled. He also can’t believe that the valves went like that (seeing that the previous ride it fired right up and ran fine when I was ridding it).

I need to get this thing working by the 23rd, I have been VERY anal about maintenance on this thing. I just don’t get what’s going on with it.

ANY help would be great!!!!

If you need any other information to assist you please feel free to ask and I will do what I can to get you the information you need.

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I have an R but it does sound like valves or what happened to me i left the choke on by accident and flooded bike.But you said you tried with choke on and off so im guessing valves.But check choke and check plug.

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I'd suggest checking the valves. Once they need to be shimmed, the valves are usually goners.

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Additional info:

Ended up taking the spark out and cleaning it up, it did have a spark.

Finally did get it to fire up, after about 20-30 kicks with choke on, and holding the throttle open 1/4 - 1/2 way. If I let up on the gas at all it would die.

I will be checking the valve clearance again tomorrow (will let you know what I find) will also be calling around like a drunk monkey trying to find someplace that would do the valves for me by the 22nd (since the race is the 23rd).

Have to say ... what a crappy way to see this happen, but it could of been worse and I could still be on the starting line of the canceled race kicking it. And damn they did last me a large number of races and a LOT of ‘play’ ridding on the back hill. (put lots of miles on it and not “nice” ones.)

And thank you all for your responses thus far…I am feeling that it maybe the valves as well…thus the call to all the shops..

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Its hard to believe the valves went THAT fast. But the usual case is when they move more than a few sizes they keep going. But that isnt always the case. You know what, I have had problems like that before and it was just by giving it too much gas. When its cold you choke it. And just a tiny blip. And if it is flooded hold it wide open not 1\2 way. Because the accelerator pump will shoot the fuel anyways no matter if its 1\4 or pinned. But when its pinned the throttle slide is all the way open which in turn lets more air in and will fire the bike. So id tell you to let it sit overnight. And try the starting process all over again. Ive seen this on more than one occasion. Not trying to say u dont know how to start your bike but all it takes is a touch of the gas and its game over. So before you start panicking try my method. Cheers bud

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It might sound to simple but did you check you jets in your carb, they may have become clogged. Especially the low speed jets it's happened to me a couple times, I use VP u-4,great stuff but it can gum up your jets. Gummy fuel or a little dirt in the carb float bowl will definitely make a bike hard to start. I say try your jets it can;t hurt.

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i just had a similar problem, it wouldnt start with the estart or kick over. every now and again i would get a backfire. i could bump start it and it ran fine. then i checked valves, they were out of spec........shimmed it and started up like it was brand new.

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I am not suprised they went that fast, they do go fast once they start to move. The good news is you should have pleanty of time to get the valves replaced. I would get the parts and remove the head and take it all down to a local dealer for them to install them. I bought all my parts from service honda and took them to my local shop and to my suprise he put them in for free ( I gave him a 12 pack the next day) It's not that big of a job for them if you have the head removed. However you may want to call around to all your local Honda dealers parts dept to find the parts since you woll need them soon, service honda takes a week or two. But I find that a lot of dealers are stocking the valve train components... I wonder why???

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40oz

Double check the cam timing... I had the same issue, went out and changed the head with a good one and the same thing..... I relined the cam the way it was....OFF a tooth.

How did it get off a tooth ??? magic I guess. theory is the auto chain tension can allow slack upon a fast decel, causing the chain to slip. Just a fst rev up before hitting the kill button when you are putting it away can do it... rare but it happens.

Sounds more like your valves but double check things....

Also from my CRF history book, look at the guides, since you mentioned the Exhaust needed a shim the guide could be bad and even reshimming will only allow the bike to start and run a short time before the seat is hammered aout of shape.

Good luck, I hope it is just a few valves and you are good to go, that is the norm. do not forget new springs. :banghead:

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If you are looking for a shop to work on it, you might consider Binghamton Honda. The guys there are really decent and understand needing to get a bike running for upcoming Harescrambles. I also race in the WNYOA series.

Carl Taylor (#888)

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I am going to check the valve clearance again tonight, but I call 3 dealers and all are willing to help me out 2 however were 'busy' until i mentioned i raced it..lol

So it looks good no matter what is going on, I will also try the other things mentioned here to see if that has any effect but I am pretty sure that the valves are done. Should I have them check the seats (not valve seats but the seat material on the head?)

Thanks to everyone that helped out...you guys rock!

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Yeah I have delt with them only in the past for parts, but they initially said they were booked then I was like bummer I have a race the 23rd and he knew what race it was and said to bring the bike in and they would have it done well before the race, he also wished me luck.

- Now that kind of customer service brings people back. The other place that did a similar thing was the place where i purchased the bike.

I will probably bring it to Binghamton for the above reason and due to the fact they are closer.

If you are looking for a shop to work on it, you might consider Binghamton Honda. The guys there are really decent and understand needing to get a bike running for upcoming Harescrambles. I also race in the WNYOA series.

Carl Taylor (#888)

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When my RI went I was still able to kick start it on the first kick. I rode it HARD(A level) for two days back to back for a total of 200 miles. At mile 190 the RI went out again, so I kicked started 2x for the last 10 miles. After the ride I had the intakes w/ SS, guides, and piston and rings replaced.

Just sounds weird that you cannot even kick start it easily within a 1 or 2 kicks. :banghead:

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Checking "valves" before checking "Gas-spark-compression"? What's the world coming to? Who's changing the rules of diagnostics?

Such advice automatically disqualifies the poster as a mechanic and as such I can see why there are so many valve problems, too many folks haven't the slightest idea what's going on in there yet they are making critical adjustments on a race motor. Sorry if I offend but the more BS there is it takes longer and longer to locate good advice.

Has it lost compression ---or not---? The valves don't have an effect on starting unless you've lost compression. Push the kickstarter slowly and listen. If it's not quiet where you are go somewhere quiet, or try listening thru a hose stuck in the mouth of the carb (wide open throttle), and then do same in the exhaust pipe.

Tom

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It seems to have compression, Gas is good, and the spark is good.

Did not offend me, I do not even come close to being seen in any light as a mechanic. I know enough to get by and then when I get stuck (not a question if) I ask, get help and if it is beyond my skill set I move it up the ladder accordingly.

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Checking "valves" before checking "Gas-spark-compression"? What's the world coming to? Who's changing the rules of diagnostics?

Well I would agree with you on proper diagnostics, but all evidence was that the intakes were gone especially since he recently had to shim. When there is a suspected problem and the check is easy, and checking the valves is easy, then that's what I'd check first.

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Your bike is just pissed that you didn't ride it those past 2-3 weeks. Just show it some love and ride the piss out of it when you get it running. Then see if it starts the next day with one or two kicks.

My car is the same way. I commute with it to work at an average of 95 mph 140 miles a day and when I let it sit over the weekends it wont start for shit on monday. :banghead:

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Checking "valves" before checking "Gas-spark-compression"? What's the world coming to? Who's changing the rules of diagnostics?

I agree that in the absence of circumstantial evidence (recent reshim), "Gas-spark-compression" is a good path. But when you recently had to reshim after several races, a quick check of the valve clearances seems prudent; especially when, according to others, your symptoms can indicate tight valve clearances.

Let's say the battery died in your car and you recharged it over night. Car runs fine for a week. The following week, the engine won't crank over. Do you begin by checking the starter or the ignition switch? Or do you go back and check the battery - the last problem area you had? Checking valves is a 30 minute, zero cost check and should be done regularly on these engines - especially if the valves have several races on them and were reshimmed prior to the last race. As a matter of fact, if the engine has a race on the valves after a reshim, I'd say the clearances should be checked even if the engine runs well!

Such advice automatically disqualifies the poster as a mechanic and as such I can see why there are so many valve problems, too many folks haven't the slightest idea what's going on in there yet they are making critical adjustments on a race motor.

If the engine is running and the valve clearances are out of spec, I'd say it's pretty "critical" to adjust them into spec whether you know what's going on inside the engine or not. BTW, for the record, I am not a mechanic.

Sorry if I offend but the more BS there is it takes longer and longer to locate good advice.

Agreed, and you didn't offend.

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