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Sequential Small jump timing woes

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Fairly new to this. After 1 year I can take big table tops and clear them. Yippee. Overall fairly good. Turning my attention to doubles. Kind of amazing how I can launch completely over a 30 foot double but struggle over a small set of small jumps :banghead:

There is this 3.5 ft tall jump, rounded off slope, nice 40 degree face. I tend to keep front wheel too far down even though hitting it at 75% of 2nd gear. Fixed that by giving it a little throttle kick at launch.

The problem with this jump is that it is immediately followed by a smaller 2.5 ft jump but that has a steep face. The scond jump is about 20 ft from first jump.

Usually what happens to me is that by the time resitutate from the first jump the second one is on my too fast and I either have to gun it and pray or stop short and go around. Been several near endos.

I sit and watch some 2 strokers hit it and they launch nciely, evenly, level through the air, leanning back a bit, no sign of chaging speed - no throttle blasts, no drastic body position changes - almost graceful.

I want ot do that!!! :banghead:

Having read a bunch of psots about similar, its obvious the cardinal rule of throttle control, but maybe taking wrong approach for a 4 stroke (05 250R)?

Guidance old (and young) wise ones?

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once you get a good feel for that first jump, stop worrying about it. once the first one isn't a problem, you will have to start thinking and looking ahead to the next one. on rhythm sections, by the time I'm in the air off the first one, i am already setting up for the second. it is something that plain old repetition will help with. the more comfortable you feel over the first jump, the more you can start directing your attention toward the second one...it will come with practice, before you know it you will be looking at it as all one section instead of a series of obstacles. i hope that made sence...

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It might be your bike set up also. On one of our practice tracks we have a section just like you mentioned. My 250f allways wants to kick the back end up on the second jump, I really have to pay attention, while on my 450, I just hit it and go! On the 250f increasing the front compression and slowing down the rear rebound seemed to help quite a bit, but still not as good as the 450. The fact that the syspension is more relaxed on the 450, being in a higher gear, less r's is probably why the 450 is better.Troy 140

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20' separate them? If the 1st face is big enough, can't you clear it? Was the other riders doubling them? Is 20' the distance between the 1st jump's lip to the 2nd jump lip? What kind of jump? Just 2 singles or they are kind of tabletops?

Also, throttle is not everything. Those rider had pinger. You have to ride differently. Lean just a little bit back (not too much at a time) and see what happend. Keep that throttle blip on the face, it does help. You can also pull a bit with your arms while leaning back, then again, take it slow, go a bit at a time and go from there.

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Make sure you're landing smooth off the 1st one. If you land too short or too far your suspension is not going to be set up decent for hitting the 2nd one since its so close. If you're all ready compressed going into the 2nd it will kick you stupid.

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20' separate them? If the 1st face is big enough, can't you clear it? Was the other riders doubling them? Is 20' the distance between the 1st jump's lip to the 2nd jump lip? What kind of jump? Just 2 singles or they are kind of tabletops?

Also, throttle is not everything. Those rider had pinger. You have to ride differently. Lean just a little bit back (not too much at a time) and see what happend. Keep that throttle blip on the face, it does help. You can also pull a bit with your arms while leaning back, then again, take it slow, go a bit at a time and go from there.

I was guessing. Maybe 30 ft, not much more for sure. It is not a double. 2 distinctly different jump faces hieght and styles. To make issues worse, the second one almost a ramp you jumped when a kid, back side almost straight down. I think this serves as a quick last obstacle. After those 2 quick small differing jusmps it goes straight into a berm then into whoops.

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Make sure you're landing smooth off the 1st one. If you land too short or too far your suspension is not going to be set up decent for hitting the 2nd one since its so close. If you're all ready compressed going into the 2nd it will kick you stupid.

Thats kind of what it feels like actually. When you labd the first one you are basically 3-4 ft from the next one. Maybe I am just hitting first too fast and hard, landing too close to second.

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Thats kind of what it feels like actually. When you labd the first one you are basically 3-4 ft from the next one. Maybe I am just hitting first too fast and hard, landing too close to second.

I'm guess ing they are just to stacks of dirt (not tabletop like), so it you land 3-4' from the 2nd one, you can definitively give the extra boost to actually land on the 2nd jumps, or landing for instance.

Tell me if I'm wrong but this is how I see your situation:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/Crazyced/bump.jpg

Up to you to make a draw to help me understand.

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Crazyced,

That drawing is close, except the back side of the second is almost straight up and down, nothing to land on. You would have to time it perfect to land exactly in the sweet spot of this second one.

Again, it amazes me that I can clear a 40 ft table and at times struggle on small finesse stuff :banghead:

But guess what, I found a clip of one of the times I took the two little ones without incident:

http://207.234.221.182/staging/thumper/test.wmv

When I mess this run up its usualy and endo type situation.

ALSO, I DONT WANT TO BECOME THOTTLE DEPENDENT! Have read enough in this forum I know using throttle blasts to reset you mid air position is not as ideal as throttle control at approach and launch.

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I see, it's actually a double double rhythm section. I also see why you're struggling in that section. Don't sit down! :banghead: You're sitting down on both faces. 🤣 You really need to stand up the whole straight from one curve to the other. It will really help. :banghead:

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if the jump face is smaller than the length of your bike and has a decent incline the bikes going to kick the rear up,because your front wheel is of the ground while your rear suspension is still being loaded as it hits the up ramp.

if the jumps are only 20' apart and your take off is a 1m high, its definately difficult to jump that small.

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I see, it's actually a double double rhythm section. I also see why you're struggling in that section. Don't sit down! :banghead: You're sitting down on both faces. 🤣 You really need to stand up the whole straight from one curve to the other. It will really help. :banghead:

I hadnt actually noticed but butt in the seat - actually thought I was standing. Thanks!

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if the jump face is smaller than the length of your bike and has a decent incline the bikes going to kick the rear up,because your front wheel is of the ground while your rear suspension is still being loaded as it hits the up ramp.

if the jumps are only 20' apart and your take off is a 1m high, its definately difficult to jump that small.

Thats a great point mark. Is there a technique solution for this - besides getting my ass up and off the seat? As the video showed, I can pass i fine using large throttle blasts at launch. But somehow, the big boys do it smoothly with no throttle blast.

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To counter that situation, You have to be on the gas all the way till your rear wheel is in the air. What that does, it Help your shock compress while your front wheel is in the air. You will have to be standing back a bit to get the full effectiveness of that technique, then again to keep that shock compress. Be careful though: Gas on, leaning back, It's all the ingredient you need to do a beautiful loopout on a normal jump. :banghead: You only do that to counter balance the "kicking" effect of the jump. If you counter balance it too far back, You'll loop-out. 🤣

But nothing will help more than practice, now that you know what to do. :banghead:

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Like Crazydonniedarkoavatarced said, you need to stand up through that section. Also, use your legs to absorb some of the forces at landing instead of colapsing and letting your butt slam back down on the seat. If you use your legs to absorb more of the impact from both take-off and landing, you won't experience that strange rebound and the section will be a breeze.

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Crazydonniedarkoavatarced
:banghead:

I actually figured out only the other day where my snowboard avatar (this) were comming from. I'm loonking forward to see that movie. :banghead:

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sounds like u need too grab another gear :banghead:

I tried mid third gear on that and it landed me too close to the second jump - no time to preapre for jumpt #2...

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I finally got it figured out - doing better.

I changed my approach entirely. It is basically a rhythm section. Think I have it mastered now - somewhat. Instead of giving it a throttle blast on the incline while pretty much sitting, I changed my style. First thing I did was watched and listened to others. I heard consistent throttle from the others that did it well. So I now I get it up to speed BEFORE I hit the face and maintain that speed over it - no revving or throttle blasts on the face if I can help it. Makes for a much better arc.

The second thing I have now learned to do is kinda hard to describe - I call it "push the bars forward" for lack of a btter description. I noticed that when the 2 smokes hit it they hit it in a crouch and when in the air, their butts push back while their arms go striaght out horizontally to the ground - kind of pushing the bars (and the bike) forward. I learned to do this at the same time I learned to use my heels to hold the bike and lift the bike up to my butt at the same time I am kind of scooting butt back while pushing arms and bars out. But its all in one fluid motion. Works on all jumps, but especially single small hills and such.

Hope I explained that well. Everynow and again I still hit it wrong: too much speed, a bit of an endo, but overlal WAY better. Speed is important in these rhythm sections, it is very easy to land too close to the second jump and have to time to set before you hit it.... I guess thats why they call them Rhythm sections.

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Throttle timing is not as good as it should be from the video. You have runon throttle, which means, you are not shutting it off after your launch, you can hear your rpm increase as your wheels leave the ground. One thing to try, is get on a small bump, and standing, use your legs and throttle to compress and bunny hop it. Legs should be semi bent, not too much. You can actually lift a bike without a jump on level ground, by just compressing and rebounding your suspension and throttle application. Try it on a mountain bike or a BMX. Press down and then lift your yourself, the thing with motobikes, as you lift, grab the bike with your legs and pull up and relax, but keeping contact with it. This allows you to maintain yaw control should the bike try to swap sideways or whatever. Another thing I noticed, is your elbows are down and you are not standing and attacking, like someone mentioned. Also as someone mentioned, you are not absorbing the landing with your legs, you sitting/collapsing into your seat. This can bite if you the back end rebounds too hard and throw you over the bars. Standing allows you to feel the bike movements more and have better control, incase something happens, that should not be happening. When you are seating, whatever movement the bike makes, you are at its mercy, your legs help the suspension and help you from getting jarred and beat up by every bump when you stand. Stand 90-95% of the time, how you practice this, take your seat off and ride the track at your comfort level.

I went off on a tangent there, what I trying to say, using a small bump, as you hit it, push down on the bike evenly front and back as you give it a shot of gas, then jump up holding the bike with your legs. This will help you time the throttle to jump face.

There are other times when you might want to be loose on the bike, but that is more down the road(I figure you are a beginner? Nothing wrong with that.). It will all come together the more you practice and ask those guys and girls who more experienced at your track how they do it.

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