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Woods ridding and engine size

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Just curious how everyone feels the ridding style differs in the woods on a 250 4-stroke vs a 450 4-stroke?

As in: CRF250X & CRF450X

WRF250 & WRF450

TE250 & TE450

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Just curious how everyone feels the ridding style differs in the woods on a 250 4-stroke vs a 450 4-stroke?

The weight is the obvious 250 advantage

The power is the obvious 450 advantage

The tight trees would go to the 250

The long climbs would go to the 450

The 250 would do best in all single track

The 450 would do best when things opened up

The 250 would take less effort on a long day

The 450 wouldn’t have to work as hard on a long day.

East is traditional 250 terrain

West is traditional 450 terrain.

There are exceptions to most of this and most of that exception is dictated by the rider. :ride:

:applause:

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What I meant was.. is the ridding style that the rider takes allot different based on engine size in the woods?

For me I feel that peg time is more on a 250 on the exact same section, not sure why but the bigger bore feels more manageable setting down through trees. A smaller bore makes me want to keep momentum at a higher constant speed because there is no power to quickly get back up to speed.

The larger bore tends to say..grab a hand full, yes now were flying, then- whoa, time to back off into reality and then the cycle starts again.

So am I ridding the big bore wrong? It just doesn't feel right with lots of power on tap to be dicing through the trees on the pegs at a constant pace. I can do it but it requires setting down for some reason.

Part of the reason for posting is also because I am having a time trying to decide on a Husky TE250 or TE450. Each one has their shinny traits BUT should each one be ridden the same way over the same section?

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There's an old saying: 'horsepower is the enemy of handling'. In short, a lot of the tight woods handling traits associated with bigger bikes aren't necessarily weight related, but more power and reciprocating weight effects. For me, for instance, I can ride a CR250 and a CR500 back to back in tight woods, and to me the 500 doesn't want to turn, in no small part because of that big crank rotating rapidly and acting like a gyroscope. This makes me ride even more squidley than usual. :bonk::applause: Same thing with a WR250 and my WR400, but I'm used to what my 400 does and so I can compensate, up to a point. As noted in an earlier post, 75% of this can be overcome by the rider.

I tend to leave my WR a gear higher than normal, and for me it's a big help in most situations. Of course, not all situations allow that, and YMMV.

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The larger boar tends to say..grab a hand full, yes now were flying, then- whoa, time to back off into reality and then the cycle starts again.

That comment makes me think the 250 might suit you better because if you’re riding a bike as if it’s an on/off switch then the 250 will certainly be more forgiving. (Safer?) (Sorry if I read that wrong :applause: )

Beyond that the rest of your post sounds like you have a good understanding of what each size bike requires of you.

So at this point I’d say that you need to decide which one suits your needs and which you can live with.

:bonk:

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That makes sense, one bike I had- the 92 EXC250 was great in that it would always accept a higher gear and just motor along at a brisk pace.

I could crack the throttle, shift & crack the throttle shift etc. to keep speed and actually ride smoother than going past mid range rpm's.

My RM however begs to open it up and thus the same warp speed cycle up and down that I find myself doing on a bigger bore 4 stroke that tires me.

The hard thing about choosing of these 2 bikes is that a 250 four stroke will have the least amount of power out of all the bikes I have raced/played on for the past 18 years but the 450 would have even more power than anything I have owned.

I wish there was a TE350.

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IMO-It's easier and more satisfying to have power and not use it than to have too little power and wish for more. :bonk:

It sure would be nice to have one of each. But even then I know I’d ride the 450 more. :applause:

:cry:

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Maybe the 450 with its short stroke and close ratio tranny would feel at home short shifting like I did on my EXC. Its low end hit might be more tame than my RM.

The EXC was nice because I could reserve WOT blasts for the big hills and still go fast short shifting. Seems the RM just doesn't like to be ridden that way.

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I would ride the one that made me grin the most. Depending on your riding style, it might be the 250, maybe the 450. A riding buddy that has ridden XR250s for years is very fast in the woods, routinely embarasses younger riders on bigger, faster bikes. My son, on the other hand is quicker on his BRP than he is on smaller bikes, woods, open, uphill, downhill, he's fast everywhere. I think it's whatever suits you the best.

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Get the 450 if you are over 200 #. THe rm 250 isn't a woods bike, not much low end so you have to rev it all the time to keep it in the power. While riding my buddies WR 250 F I would find myself pinning the throttle from place to place and wanting more.

The newer 250 four stroke trail bikes will be on par with the xr 400 you list. If you like that power but want to lose weight get the 250, otherwise the 450 is the only choice. You will get used to the power and you control the twisty thing on the right side.

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The best solution to your problem is to get a 2 stroke! How's about a 300 exc/xc/xc-w? All the power you need with the weight of a 250mxer.... as light or lighter than a 250 4 stroke. You can chug it just like a 4 stroke. I rode a friends last week and could not believe how well that thing chugged up some hills. I got caught in 3rd gear at about 5-10 mph and had to lift the front wheel up over an 2 foot rock ridge....no problem! I had ridden it before, but this just sealed the deal for me. The 300 is an awesome bike. My 200xc hasn't arrived yet, but could also be an option for you with it's lighter weight and more power than any 250 4 stroke but not as lugable as a 450. Why do you think most professional off roaders ride 2 strokes?

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The newer 250 four stroke trail bikes will be on par with the xr 400 you list. If you like that power but want to lose weight get the 250,
I am 160 lbs and the XR's power was fine, it was the weight that made me go for the RM. I did do a heavy flywheel and gnarly pipe on the RM but its nothing like my old EXC.

Also I want to be able to ride some dual sports and am worried the 250 wouldn't cut that kind of ridding.

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The best solution to your problem is to get a 2 stroke! How's about a 300 exc/xc/xc-w?
I would do an EXC300 for sure if I didn't need a plate for dual sports, that is a great woods bike for sure.

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I recently got a used WR 450 after riding an old 1980 IT 250. I getting pretty used to the bike now but when I,m riding in tight trees and single track I sometimes wonder what the 250 version might be like. Have you considered any brand that make 300-400 cc bikes such as KTM and Kawasaki. You could probably save money and get a newer version of a bike you already have , The XR400 .A friend of mine who rides the same trails has a 2000 something and does very well !

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There's an old saying: 'horsepower is the enemy of handling'. In short, a lot of the tight woods handling traits associated with bigger bikes aren't necessarily weight related, but more power and reciprocating weight effects. For me, for instance, I can ride a CR250 and a CR500 back to back in tight woods, and to me the 500 doesn't want to turn, in no small part because of that big crank rotating rapidly and acting like a gyroscope.
Interesting.. what about stroke length and the gyroscope thing?

For a good example would be an XR400 with a stroke of 70mm and a TE450 with only 60.76mm. (shortest stroke 450 I have seen)

I wonder how stroke length plays a roll in tight woods, if it makes the bike "feel" any lighter/heavier?

At first I was considering the TE510 simply because its the same motor as the 450 but with a longer stroke. I thought the added stroke would tame the snap but current 06 owners feel the 450 is better in the woods.

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i would say a 125 or 250 two stroke have really good power for trails and rm is a great bike for trails i keep my little 125 in 3 gear just about all day in tight harescrambler just learn the sweet spot and keep a finger over the cluch for hills just in cass but once u learn it u wont need it

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The bigger 450F's can be a lot harder to wrestle in the woods because (mainly) of their weight. That makes a big difference when the going gets technical and tight. You'll see a lot more GNCC racers prefer the 250 two-stroke in the woods versus the 450F for that reason. Some guys like bored/stroked 250F's even moreso because they are lightweight but can run with the 450F's and 250's a lot better on the fast stuff.

A really good woods mods would be a 315cc kit from MaxRPMs.

http://www.maxpower-engines.com

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The bigger 450F's can be a lot harder to wrestle in the woods because (mainly) of their weight. That makes a big difference when the going gets technical and tight.

imho, this is really only an issue for high-level racing, or for people that are pretty weak and out-of-shape, or novice riders. i am not really able to detect much difference between my 300exc and the 520's i've ridden as far as how easy they are in the tight going. both of them are easier to ride in the tightstuff than my 250sx, but the 250sx is faster when ridden aggressively, so that's what i race.

for me, not being a professional racer, i'd gladly trade the increased longevity and versatility of a bigger bore bike over the slight increase in maneuverability of a small-bore. most of the hard-core all-day riders i know ride 300's and 520/525's and have zero problems even in crazy technical tight woods. even the husaberg fe650 i rode was a pretty mellow and easy bike to ride.

i don't really get that tired anymore in any kind of riding tho.

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A really good woods mods would be a 315cc kit from MaxRPMs.
That would be slick but at that price I would just bite the bullet and buy another bike so I would have a 250 and 450 to choose based on the days ridding. They got some trick stuff though.

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