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Opinions on a combo of parts

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I just received a 2004 engine to go with the 2 2002 engines we have been using. Noticed that the ignition module is different, so, doing a search here seems to say the 2004 ignition is a different curve, and is probably better, and there are just a couple of things to be able to use the 2002 stator with the later ignition...

But, I wanted some thoughts on this - we have been using 2004 pistons in the 2002 motors, and one has a Hot Cam Stage 1.

1. Would the newer ignition help the 2004 pistons perform better?

2. Would the newer ignition help with the Hot Cam as well?

Is this a better combo? 2004 piston, HotCam, 2004 ignition

Than what we have been doing with the 2002 ignition?

I would add that we have so far found running a more stock setup has been better, faster, and easier to keep running than those that have been doing heavy mods around us. So, I am not looking for the "most" built combo. Looking for mild, but, beneficial changes that move our performance in the right direction.

Thanks

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It will be very difficult to positively say without doing some testing. I believe Honda claimed a new map every year between 02 and 04. I don't think it is public knowledge as to what exactly these maps consist of.

If you have an understanding of electronics and could actually understand what you are seeing, it wouldn't be impossible to extract the maps from each module for comparison.

I think a more practical method to get you to what you want without all the potential wheel in mud spinning would be to run back to back dyno tests on your custom setup.

Maybe someone here has already done testing on a similar setup.

Sorry I just realized I didn't really say anything useful.

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Just checking to see if anyone has some thoughts on this. Seems when I post thoughtful questions there isn't a lot of help, but, a dozen answers on how much tranny oil to put in.

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Melted down ass blubber of a teenage walrus clearly is the best choice for a transmission oil. Got a problem with that?

Heh, sorry. Glad someone finally gave a useful answer here.

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burned,

would you say that the trend holds true with all of the years? ie the newer the module the better it works regardles of engine year and combo.

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Burned, thanks for the info. Is there any info on the cam profiles of the different year cams? Are the O4 and O5 cams more aggresive and better performance, on the order of the mild aftermarket cams? In one sanction the engines rules are "Stock" but there isn't anything about mixing stock parts. So, if I can get a better cam using a stock part from another year, that would be great.

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Thanks for the compliment. I posted new pics in the garage from Nov'05 at Road Atlanta. We changed to white bodywork. If you want to know more about Superkarts let me know by PM, I can point you to websites and more pictures. USSC is United States Superkart Championships. This is a pro organization, this isn't strapping something found in the backyard onto four wheels and seeing what happens. This is real, organized, sanctioned, racing on full size road courses.

Now back to the topic:

Best stock cam?

What is the compression ratio of the 05 and 06 pistons? I understand that 04 is 12:1 versus the 02/03 11.5:1

Thanks

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for what your doing with the motors, Id say the best cam would probably be the 02. Its a more high RPM cam. Although Id say the best cam for what you're doing would be an RHC187.

Your best combo would be 04 piston, 05/06 ignition (you'll need an 04-06 harness for it) and the 05 air boot, (if your running an airboot at all...)and the 02 cam if you have to use OEM parts.

Ive started collecting all this stuff for my 03.

FYI:

The 04-06 crank shafts are quite a bit lighter than the 02-03. Not sure how that would affect a Kart. But it seems like auto racing is compeletly different that motorcycle racing and the least amount of reciprocating mass is typically what you look for.

Have you had any issues with the transmissions? There is another guy on TT that uses the CRF450 in thier cart and they had an inordinate number of trans problems. I figured it was the traction.

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Hi everyone - thanks for more good information. I will ask a couple of more questions and answer a few as well.

I am assuming the "air boot" is on the air intake side of the carb, not between the engine and the carb, is that correct? If so, then we are not using anything there, we have an air filter adapter attached to the carb and a universal Unifilter attached to that. The adapter provides a short "air horn" sorta thing but mainly provides a transistion from the carb intake diameter to the air filter diameter of 2.5"

What is considered "High RPM?" We shift a 10K (or pretty close, 10.2 maybe max) and in 5th are so far geared to top out at about 9.2-9.5K We are still working on better gearing. Depending on the track and the length of the straights, we might be holding rpm for 30 seconds. See discussion of "2 strokes" below

The best stock cam for power is the 05/06 - what kind of power? Low end? Or across the entire band? See discussions of 2 strokes below.

Thanks for the tip on the cranks. I will discuss with my engine builder. See the rod discussion below.

Now some answers

1/4 mile time? I don't know, but, I can give you some laptimes -

Portland International - 1:12 - average speed of 98+ MPH

Thunderhill Raceway - 1:55 - avg 93+ MPH (we have some work to do there)

Road Atlanta - 1:33.6 - avg 97+

Top speeds of about 120 or so. For 2006 we are working on the aero package a bit and should be able to improve that a few MPH.

Reliability? We have only had 2 engine related problems so far:

1. Broke a rod at our last race of the season in the 2nd engine I bought used from a fellow TT person off an ad here. I am not putting that on anyone. We didn't know how much time was on the engine, and both engines were planning to get heavy duty rods this winter anyway, just had to get a 3rd engine though, and that is the newer '04 that started this whole discussion.

2. Some jumping out of gear on our original engine. Will go through the tranny this winter.

We had two other major catastrophies but they were clearly induced by the first shop that was working on the engines. Details left out to be polite.

Against the 2 strokes - well at the end of our first season (2005) we seem to have measured up well. There were 2 competitors in the western series that seemed to have a little more than us, and if they had it all going right and hit the tune, would have us by a second or so, but the rest of the field we would have covered. Our on track reliability is much higher. These are fully wide open single cylinder 2 strokes as well. Only spec is bore and stroke for them. When we went to Road Atlanta for the Nationals, again, we had a couple of the 2 strokes to chase, the top guys, but otherwise we had the field covered, including several built 4 strokes as the USSC rules for 4 strokes is "under 500 cc" it is IKF that limits us to "stock/oem" The qualifying results at Road Atlanta went something like this:

1st - 1:31 and change - CR250

2nd - 1:32 and change - Gas Gas 250 (Euro engine)

3rd - 1:33 and change - us with the CRF450R, '04 piston and hot cam stage 1 '02 ignition

4th - 1:38 and change and the rest of the field following that.

Also, several of the "built" 4 strokes (yamahas and hondas) had failures of various kinds, during the weekend.

So - we are looking for just a few horsepower without compromising reliability to give us just that last little bit. We seem to have the kart sorted, and working well, our tires are looking great and lasting well. Some things we are working on is an improved cooling system, that is more aerodynamic, right now we are running too cool. So, by rearranging radiators, and having more control over the air flow, we can get the temp up.

Also, we will be able to better route the exhaust, which may result in a little improvement.

So, anymore thoughts are appreciated. I am appreciate the support.

Sorry for the long post.

Happy New Year

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Oh, and is the counterbalance shaft different between the older and newer crankshafts? I would think so if there is a weight difference

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