Ford Layoffs

[Thumpmeister]

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/opinions/ci_3430622

I don't know how many of you have been watching the news lately, but Ford has just laid off some 30,000 workers. Both Ford and GM have now laid off about 30,000 workers a piece. Kind of depressing, but what the article says holds true;

Both of these companies have been heavily focusing on their gas-hog SUV's, and with the way gas prices have been rising over the past few years, the lure of the SUV is becoming less and less. I don't know if Chrysler has realized this or not, because the only SUV they have is the Durango, but I can't imagine the new Hemi cars being real easy on the fuel bill either.

The big three are going to have to come to the realization that driving these monster gas hogs is not going to last forever; they need to get on the alternate fuel source route. This is were diesel comes in, because although diesel is a fossil fuel, you can subsitute vegetable oil for diesel.

ALSO, heres the key. By converting the diesels to run on vegetable oil, you also support the american farmer, and stop our dependance on middle eastern oil. Its the corn in mid-western america thats going to help fuel the veggie oil thing.

[ba10]

They're problem goes way beyond having the product line focused on trucks and SUV's. The people running the major auto suppliers and the industry have become isolated from the truth of how their products are designed, built and used. I work with these people everyday and I am amazed that they still don't get it. They still believe that what is going on is another typical down turn in the industry, that it will turn around like before. They have not grasp the fact that they are at a turning point in history. If they don't fix the economic model that they are using, they will be relegated to the trash bin of history. Right now only DCX appears to have realized this and are trying to change. A few in the supplier industry also see what needs to happen. The rest are lost and unfortunately the real losers will be the poor working guy's and gal's who had no say in the whole thing.

[TimBrp]

From what I've one plant manufactured mainly the Taurus-no longer in production and one way focused mainly on the Explorers-no longer selling well. This was a business decision, probably a good one for the company. Will families suffer from this, yes. However, if Ford can rebound from this and still remain competitive, than so be it. Sucks that they couldn't get their ducks in a row before they sent 30,000 people up the creek w/out a paddle though.

[ToooFaarOutt]

From what I've one plant manufactured mainly the Taurus-no longer in production and one way focused mainly on the Explorers-no longer selling well. This was a business decision, probably a good one for the company. Will families suffer from this, yes. However, if Ford can rebound from this and still remain competitive, than so be it. Sucks that they couldn't get their ducks in a row before they sent 30,000 people up the creek w/out a paddle though.

I don't know if I would call it up the creek without a paddle. I do not know if it is still the same as it was 20 years ago but the auto industry used to have a great plan when it came to being layed off as far as payment went. I used to know a guy that loved being layed off from GM as he made almost as much as when he worked. Yeah it is a bummer for those that have over extended themselves credit wise...but this is not the company's fault.

Sometimes people need to be pushed out of their job as they get to comfortable in what they do. Some of these people have great ideas sitting in their head but all was well with the job so no need to put it to work for better opportunity.

I have been out of work for 2yr 4 months I was comfortable at my job but hated it. I was one of the better paid employees. When they decided to let me go ( because I spoke what I felt this did not go over great with management) they felt like I was contaminating the rest of their employees. I had employees coming to me telling them that management has told them to stay away from me. Anyway I have spent these last couple of years with my then 2 year old son pretty much 24 hrs a day and am in no way sorry that they let me go. Like I said earlier if I had been strung out on credit I would have been screwed. So know that my son is getting ready to start school I am going in to Business for myself starting mid February. Probably making at least 4 times more than I was making and getting the tax write offs to boot.

[YZ450t]

The only reason that GM and Ford have made it this far was from the "big suv" craze several years ago. There was no other players. When the Navagator was released Ford made nearly 10k on each one. In the auto market the factory making 1000.00 was projected for each unit as an average. Unfortunatly,many years ago,the unions have guided american auto to the same fate as american steel factories. Too many ex employees getting paid for too many years with no production. Charlie

[TimBrp]

I don't know if I would call it up the creek without a paddle. I do not know if it is still the same as it was 20 years ago but the auto industry used to have a great plan when it came to being layed off as far as payment went. I used to know a guy that loved being layed off from GM as he made almost as much as when he worked.

No offense but I stopped reading right there. These "great plans" they offered are whats causing alot of the layoffs now. Sales are down and they're paying large sums out on these great pensions, comp plans, dissability, health ins., etc.etc. They were such great plans back when revenue was way up. Now these companies realized from a business standpoint(read:not moral) that they were too nice. I would expect to see alot of bitching and moaning coming from the automakers employees with regards to future benefits.

[250Thumpher]

Let me first say, please don't let this turn into a bashing discussion like, haha, Ford sucks like that, no. irrelevant.

Just had this discussion in my econ class. We talked about hydrogen power and hybrids being the way of the future. I wouldn't stand the discussion anymore and just had to state my posistion.

Diesel probably will be the way of the future. Not diesel oil as the fuel, but veggie oil. In a hybrid, you have 6,000 dollars worth of batteries that go bad, and it still funs on gas. In a hydrogen, you're driving around an even bigger bomb that we do already. A diesel motor will actually get better mileage than a hybrid.

That last statement brought me a lot of bashing, but then again, they are thinking about big trucks, putting out all the sulfer and suckin down on fuel. What about the Jetta TDI's that get as much if not more than a hybrid, run really clean, and it's a diesel motor? Same thing with the Mercedes Benz, which gets the same mileage if not better, than a Accord hybrid. The mercedes is also a very big car!

I just say we invest in veggie oil production and put out more diesels. Way to go for a lot of different reasons.

-Philly

[TimBrp]

The government may act like they are all for hybrids. However, how many patents have been shot down or bought out for these veggie oil, or trash burning vehicles from the big oil companies? The US collects so much revenue from natural gas right now(even in lieu of our current $/barrell) from us that they wouldn't allow all hybrid vehicles, IMO. Bad for business vs. good for the american way of life.....picture yourself as the government and then weigh the odds. Money talks....

[YZ450t]

TimBrp,I completely agree! Period. All the crap about gas guzzling is just that crap. If one takes all the state revenue from gas taxes,cut it in half each state is screwed. Money talks. What GM and Ford are going thru,should have happened over 10 years ago. The only reason it didnt is due to the SUV's and full size trucks. The craze that idiots cry about now. Now that things have slowed down....and the high dollar amounts that the automakers pay out for past labor,things arent rosey anymore.

[hyper800]

This may hurt some feelings but, IMHO, one of the biggest problems american automakers have is unions. Getting 80% to 90% of pay, plus benefits, when laid off is just riduculous for any employee, union or nonunion.

Unions need to understand that they must be a part of the business, forget the "us vs. them" mentality and take their lumps just like nonunion workers when the business cycle turns south for whatever reason.

You can gripe all you want to about bad planning and business forecasting screw ups, but the high expense of producing a car in the US has made the profit margin so slim in the US any minor glitch in a business model can be a huge problem.

Off my soap box now. I feel better.

[COlucky7s]

Does anyone else find it hilarious that the big three have made the same, exact mistake twice, 30 years apart? They all dismissed the small fuel efficient vehicles of the 70s, got destroyed in the 80s, then began making the same mistakes in the 90s with huge SUV's. Even more laugable is DCX, who is marketing these super fast, big HEMI powered cars and trucks, while gas prices skyrocket. Why is it that Honda and Toyota "Just get it", and the big three don't? ?

[TimBrp]

Why is it that Honda and Toyota "Just get it", and the big three don't? ?

IMO, it's who the market base is for the big "3". The japs and chinese don't have the desire for big trucks and muscle cars. Real American men do. If you ask me I like having 300+ horse under my foot and room to put 6 people in my truck. You ever drive a foreign car or truck? Not every American is 5'2" and 130lbs. like the foreigners who design those 'other' vehicles. I like a truck that has balls, room to spare, and stylish looks. The american companies have it there, period, IMO. However, there are many people that can get into a foreign vehicle and fit fine, I can't and won't. I would feel like I'm in a tuna can. Furthermore, the salary rates overseas for those people who are working 17hr. days 6 days a week lack in comparison to what americans are used to. Bottom line, us Americans are friggin' spoiled...and we LOVE IT.

[damone]

The Japanese businees theory is out the window in that country right now. The new generation of workers isn't puttin gup with it, and you will see those manufacturers suffering too.

About H-cell vehicles. It takes more fossil fuel to manufacture an H-cell than a vehicle would use in a lifetime. The oil tycoons are the ones who stiffle any new technology. They are the one's with the money. Veggie Oil and methane (both bi-products of most plant tissues - corn, soy, hemp, etc...)have been a source of energy for a long long time, but the oil industry keeps anything from being developed / patented.

[TimBrp]

The Japanese businees theory is out the window in that country right now. The new generation of workers isn't puttin gup with it, and you will see those manufacturers suffering too.

About H-cell vehicles. It takes more fossil fuel to manufacture an H-cell than a vehicle would use in a lifetime. The oil tycoons are the ones who stiffle any new technology. They are the one's with the money. Veggie Oil and methane (both bi-products of most plant tissues - corn, soy, hemp, etc...)have been a source of energy for a long long time, but the oil industry keeps anything from being developed / patented.

C'mon man, who do you think the oil companies have in their back pockets...why of course...George DubYa.... ?

[damone]

C'mon man, who do you think the oil companies have in their back pockets...why of course...George DubYa.... ?

More like evryone on Capitol Hill.

[TimBrp]

Ditto..

[PBDBLUE]

The problem with crop derived fuels ("vegatable oil") is that it uses resources that are needed to feed the world. A recent article talked about methanol derived from corn. It turns out you would have to cover the earth with corn in order to produce enough methanol to provide for the current demand. Not to mention one good draught and you'll see gas lines like you've never seen. Oh and of course we wouldn't have anything to eat either.

[250Thumpher]

Did the article bring up the fact that less fuel would be used, since the diesel engines are much more mpg efficent?

[PBDBLUE]

A good point but still none the less it will take a considerable amount of resources and again the weather conditions can wreak havoc on production capacity. I'm not suggesting tha bio-diesel and methanol aren't worthy supplemental sources. They just not well suited to be a primary source of fuel. A better approach to conserve might be to convert electrical power generation in the U.S. to nuclear. The technology has advanced tremendously in the last 30 years and it's time to take another look. Also I agree with you that more diesel offerings in the U.S. would be a good thing.

[YZ450t]

Unfortunatly,I think america has become to liberal to ever consider Nuclear,which honestly like you have said,has came leaps and bounds. Likewise, diesel,and our own petroleum supplies could be used better I feel. The amount that we sit on for all intents and purposes is useless. Pretty much like buying two cars,but only driving one...not even sharing the wear and tear out. The only thing we can do maybe be would be to buy a diesel instead of gas power. I have one,love the way it pulls anything. Mileage,yea,better..4x4 chev gets 15,my last dodge 3/4 4x4..got 8..so yea..almost double,and because the truckers union so powerful,I know I will always have access ,government never goin to go face up with that union,and advocate smog pumps,etc... Charlie