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Supermoto vs Speed bike

By Crazyced,
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Grand Master

Crazyced

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I instruct at track days and until recently raced open superbike. Now and then we would get some SM guys at the big tracks, and it was interesting to see them slide around. In general though they ran 10-15 seconds off race pace.

On really tight corners (e.g. under 30 stuff), a SM should be faster. Also, on a kart track with lots of transitions a SM should flick over quicker. Sport bikes just aren't stable that slow, and they can't get much drive.

I think in general other's points were spot on. Under 30 on a liter bike and it's like lugging a trail bike. It's not really a fair comparison though.

In any condition other than the ultra tight stuff you're talking about though the SM would get killed. Our superbikes were pushing 200hp and under 400 lbs, against what? 70ish hp and 260lbs (with bad aeros)? Moreso, the high center of gravity and clearence allows corner speed that an SM cannot match on anything but the tightest of corners.

I don't think anecdotal comparisons are valid. There are a ton of squids on sportbikes that have no clue how to ride, whereas most SMs you see on the streets have a worthy pilot.

SMs are a blast, and in very small tracks they are one of the quicker ways to get around. Anything a sportbike can get out of 1st gear on though and its bye-bye SM.

Nice first post scotch. ? Welcome to TT. ?

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gnarly sprockets

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Until a few days ago I had a sport bike and a SM. I used to take them both to Arroyo Seco Raceway in New Mexico. The track has two straights, one of them about a mile long and the other about 1/4 mile. Timed over a full lap I was faster on the sport bike but I was fastest in the curvy sections on the SM. There are several riders that were faster than me on either bike and in any part of the track.

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Grand Master

NorCal

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And don't forget the battle of dollars.

Supermoto track days $20-$40

Sportbike track days $200+

Supermoto crash repairs: Maybe need a new clutch lever

Sportbike crash repairs: Priceless

Well I had my heart set on a CBR929 or 954 (which ever I could find a better deal on) but now you guys have convinced me otherwise. My commute to school is only 3 miles at best and the only other riding I would be doing is joyrides on the weekend. ?

Now the question is which supermoto is best for speed/power, price, and engine longevity? (I'll do a search!)

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st lewis

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I currently have a 600rr and I am quite fast on it. I am selling it and by the end of the weekend I shal be owning a DRZ 400sm. I just rode my friends 2006 sm yesterday, and it is fun!

It is hard to compare the two on a track, but on the streets is different. I was on the rr and he was on the sm. coming up to corners with any sand on them (even a little) and he could just fly thru them while I had to slow way down. In town, 25mph, he could take all the corners so fast in and out while on a sportibke you can only take 90degree corners with alot of exit speed, it is hard to be fast 'in' the corner. motards are so light he just flew thru. but, there were corners out in the country where he would be full leaned on the sm at 75mph, and I could easily have passed him. motards are ment for taking the 'slower' corners faster. I can't wait to get mine! it will be nice not worrying about getting triple-digit speeding tickets. And 45mpg would be nice, too.

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Lizard 1

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I instruct at track days and until recently raced open superbike. Now and then we would get some SM guys at the big tracks, and it was interesting to see them slide around. In general though they ran 10-15 seconds off race pace.

On really tight corners (e.g. under 30 stuff), a SM should be faster. Also, on a kart track with lots of transitions a SM should flick over quicker. Sport bikes just aren't stable that slow, and they can't get much drive.

I think in general other's points were spot on. Under 30 on a liter bike and it's like lugging a trail bike. It's not really a fair comparison though.

In any condition other than the ultra tight stuff you're talking about though the SM would get killed. Our superbikes were pushing 200hp and under 400 lbs, against what? 70ish hp and 260lbs (with bad aeros)? Moreso, the high center of gravity and clearence allows corner speed that an SM cannot match on anything but the tightest of corners.

I don't think anecdotal comparisons are valid. There are a ton of squids on sportbikes that have no clue how to ride, whereas most SMs you see on the streets have a worthy pilot.

SMs are a blast, and in very small tracks they are one of the quicker ways to get around. Anything a sportbike can get out of 1st gear on though and its bye-bye SM.

Don't know who you are, but well said. This arguement is always brought up and too often, unknowledged people chime in. Mostly street squids who think this or that.

Overall, well said and nice to see someone else races diesels! ?

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Lizard 1

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I currently have a 600rr and I am quite fast on it. I am selling it and by the end of the weekend I shal be owning a DRZ 400sm. I just rode my friends 2006 sm yesterday, and it is fun!

It is hard to compare the two on a track, but on the streets is different. I was on the rr and he was on the sm. coming up to corners with any sand on them (even a little) and he could just fly thru them while I had to slow way down. In town, 25mph, he could take all the corners so fast in and out while on a sportibke you can only take 90degree corners with alot of exit speed, it is hard to be fast 'in' the corner. motards are so light he just flew thru. but, there were corners out in the country where he would be full leaned on the sm at 75mph, and I could easily have passed him. motards are ment for taking the 'slower' corners faster. I can't wait to get mine! it will be nice not worrying about getting triple-digit speeding tickets. And 45mpg would be nice, too.

Classic example of what I was refering to....

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Lizard 1

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What kind of expert are you? ?

Just wondering what type of credentials you hold...

Uh, I am not going to lay out what licenses I have had or currently have to impress keyboard wizards. You have a guy like Scotch stating things that ring true and guys like he and I get the picture. Anyone who gets their feathers in a bind are probably not experienced in road racing.

Look, this arguement comes up a million times. It is so biased to one side or another that it becomes an excercise in wasted time.

If you think you're super fast on your street bike and feel you are going to set the world on fire with a Supermoto, buy one and have fun. If you think your street bike is faster, great - ride away and have a blast. If you think your Motard is a sportbike killer - cool. Tear it up and carve some twisties.

Just don't come on here talking like you're Mick Doohan, Vale, or Nicky Hayden. For every guy who thinks he is "Da Bomb", there's a hundred other guys faster than you. Kinda like the tough guy scenerio - no matter how tough you are, there's always someone out there tougher...

Supermoto bikes are awesome - on a Supermoto track. Road race bikes are awesome - on road courses. Trying to compare the two on either's home court is fruitless.

Carry on.

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scotch

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The only day I ever thought I was fast was the first day I bought my first sportbike.

Unfortunately, my evolution is complete. I now ride a dual sport and spend my time in the woods (fast enough to pass a few squids on gixxers on my way to the trails I should add). But every time I see a guy like you hanging at Starbucks Norcal, I am happy for you. Because I know, you are at the beginning of your evolution.

To know what I'm talking about, read this: http://www.socalrpm.com/SoCal_Web/News/Evolution/evolution.html

Have fun and enjoy whatever you ride.

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scotch

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Great video, very entertaining.

That track was pretty tight though, at least by superbike standards. But worse, the riders he's passing look like its their first trackday.

One things for sure though, the vid does a great job at showing why tards are so fun.

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Grand Master

NateTheGreat

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You can probably tailor a race so that any bike you want to win can. If you make the track to small, maybe a minibike could actually win? I've owned a couple of steet bikes the last one being a 2004 crb1000rr. The acceleration on those bikes is incredible and they can take turns very well. You can't slide your back end around with your foot out like you can on a supermotard but it won't take much of a straightaway for the superbike to make that up and then some. Were talking 0-60 in 2.7 seconds. If you don't like the supermotard losing though, you could always throw in some jumps!
0-60 on a 450cc supermoto isn't at all far off that mark. I could pull 4.3 's on my "slightly" ? modified DRZ with 400cc. Its beyond that 60MPH mark the sportbikes will make the kill as the motor starts to get into the top end.

Its pretty funny though whenever a sportbike would come up to me at a light... revvin his motor wanting to race.... I used to just ride a wheelie to the next stop light and the shock and awe always keeps them behind to watch the show. :confused: Who says you have to be fast to win? Its all about who can put on a better show. :bonk: Oh well those days are over for me. :bonk: 1 to many run ins with the law gotta save it for the trackdays. ?

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laohu69

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Cruise www.mylaps.com for more info, but WERA subscribes to them. They have motard classes.

From VIR:

Super Motard Expert(basicly and open class for motards, displacement wise)

Winner best lap time: 1:43.369

2nd place best lap time: 1:48.653

Lightweight Superbike(which is usually hotrod SV650s and such) Expert

Winner best lap time: 1:38.347

2nd place best lap time: 1:38.585

3rd place best lap time: 1:39.055

C Superstock(600cc I4 no real engine modes)

Winner best lap: 1:30.005

2nd place best lap: 1:33.968

3rd place best lap: 1:33.595

From California Speedway:

Super Motard Expert

Winner best lap: 1:58.190

Lightweight Superbike Expert

Winner best lap: 1:39.602

Now these will be full sized tracks, not go-cart tracks. If your talking strictly go-cart track, then yes a motard will probably do better than a full sized bike. But once you get any substantial straight aways the full sized bike will eat the motard.

BINGO ?

It is really quite simple to ascertain, all you have to do is go and compare the actual numbers and not try to hypothesize anything.

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