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TE transmission - Taller 5th and/or 6th?!?

It would be nice if Husky could adapt the TE 610 tranny gears into the TE 450 (510) for a really well-spaced set of gear ratios, at least as an option.

Race bikes require close ratios to be able to be on the power at all speeds. The TE's are race bikes. If you have too tall of a 5th and 6th with a big gap between 4th and fifth, then people would complain the other way.

It is tough, if not impossible, to get a usable bowerband in six gears that will let you poke around at 7-10 mph and then cruise at 85 mph.

I think what the TE models need is a 7th gear.

i was looking at the specs for the sm 510, and noticed that the gear ratios are different. just need to find somebody that knows if they will interchange.

Race bikes require close ratios to be able to be on the power at all speeds. The TE's are race bikes. If you have too tall of a 5th and 6th with a big gap between 4th and fifth, then people would complain the other way.It is tough, if not impossible, to get a usable bowerband in six gears that will let you poke around at 7-10 mph and then cruise at 85 mph.

I think what the TE models need is a 7th gear.

Waaay off here.

Whether a race bike or not... the TE can pull a taller 5th and 6th and be usable. Not sure where you get it can't. Which I guess in a way your saying a WR (Yami) and the X (CRF) and the EXC - and now XC (KTM) aren't a "race" bike??

And it's not feasible for a 7th... so why even mention it?!

Looking for usable and factual information here....

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i was looking at the specs for the sm 510, and noticed that the gear ratios are different. just need to find somebody that knows if they will interchange.

Exactly the kind of info I was looking for...

I found similar in the manual.

The final drive ratio is different, but I wasn't sure by how much...

I'd be interested to know what the top speed is on a SMR 510. That would help... and like I mentioned, I'm not sure how to figure it per gear. (Someone is a gear head and should know).

Someone know the math to get top speed per redline with given final drive ratios?

Waaay off here.Whether a race bike or not... the TE can pull a taller 5th and 6th and be usable. Not sure where you get it can't. Which I guess in a way your saying a WR (Yami) and the X (CRF) and the EXC - and now XC (KTM) aren't a "race" bike??

And it's not feasible for a 7th... so why even mention it?!

Looking for usable and factual information here....

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Sorry to hear you think I am way off here. I post my opinions and no one ever agrees on everything.

Why do you think a 7th gear is not feasable?

Sorry to hear you think I am way off here. I post my opinions and no one ever agrees on everything.

Agreed.

Why do you think a 7th gear is not feasable?

Let me know when you got it worked out... and have a 7th in a TE tranny. Then you can ask the same question again.

In fact, I'd pay ya to get it done. I would love a 7th!

Agreed.Let me know when you got it worked out... and have a 7th in a TE tranny. Then you can ask the same question again.

In fact, I'd pay ya to get it done. I would love a 7th!

I won't do it but Husky could.

I believe there was a model produced by Husky maybe 10 years ago that had an eight speed transmission. I think maybe it was automatic also. Husky has always been into the desert racing market. Just not as much concentration on it now as when Husky from Sweden still owned the company.

I won't do it but Husky could.I believe there was a model produced by Husky maybe 10 years ago that had an eight speed transmission. I think maybe it was automatic also. Husky has always been into the desert racing market. Just not as much concentration on it now as when Husky from Sweden still owned the company.

I guess I need to reiterate.

I'd like a taller 5th and/or 6th.

I'd like to do this soon (within months).

I'd like to keep my same tranny.

I'd like to just swap 5th and 6th for another gear set.

I'd like to stay on track with today, not next year, or 10yrs ago.

Thanks Flame, but I think my thoughts are reasonable.

I'm simply saying I wanted factual information for the change-out of 5th and 6th gear. Not theoretical or fiction.

I appreciate the help, but would rather stay away from opinion. It's not going to help me in any way get my job done.

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johnnyairtime,

If I were you. I'd call whoever you want to do the work with George @ Uptite being my first choice to do it. I don't know how far you are from his shop.

If you are doing the work then I would still call George, he would know, or know how to find out, if there is some stock gears that could be swapped out to change the ratios as you wish. Then have him order the parts for you.

It is pretty easy to determine if there are parts that could be swapped out.

Get online and get the spec's and part manuals for the TC's, TE's & SMR's. There are primary drive gears and transmission gears that affect the overall ratios. If the ratios are different in the spec's go to the parts manuals and see where the different part #'s are. You have to look at the primary drive gears the same as sprokets, they will affect all the individual gears/ratios.

I am pretty sure the transmissions are the same for the 510's, 450's and 250's. Of course they will have different size gears but the main parts will be the same. The parts books will tell you.

Good luck.

Someone know the math to get top speed per redline with given final drive ratios?

Actually I thought about the same thing - swapping out 5th and 6th...

Here is the math for a TE610 but it is not going to help you...

=========================================

TE-610

3.40 top gear vs bottom gear ratio

Final ratio (sprocket) stock is 45/15 or 3.00

engine/clutch ratio: 2.343

Gear ratios: Ratio including final drive, and engine/clutch (right most col)

1st 2.615 (34/13) 18.4

2nd 1.812 (29/16) 12.7

3rd 1.35 (27/20) 9.5

4th 1.091 (24/22) 7.7

5th 0.916 (22/24) 6.4

6th 0.769 (20/26) 5.4

So that means for every revolution of the rear wheel the engine turns 5.4 revs in 6th gear.

With stock 140/80-18 tire on an 18" rim:

140mm x 0.80 ratio = 112mm tire height or 4.4"

18" / 2 = 9" distance from axle to edge of rim.

Total distance from axle to tire = 9+4.4 = 13.4"

Circumference of a circle is 2 x PI x R = 2 x 3.14 x 13.4 = 84.25" around tire.

So for every rev of the tire you travel 84.25"

So the bike travels 84.25" / 5.4 = 15.59" per rev of engine in top gear.

5280' per mile x 12" / ft = 63360" per mile

And 63360 is the # of inches / minute at 60mph (60 minutes in an hour).

So that means:

63360" / 15.59" = 4065 rpms at 60mph.

Yeah I KNOW if you do the math that means if a TE610 will go 155mph at red line in top gear but that probably is not going to happen for a lot of reasons (assuming redline is 10500).

This math has been tested on a variety of bikes and it is pretty close but yes tire pressures, etc makes a difference.

For the record doing the same math gives 8740 rpm of a TE250 at 60mph which seems about right.

85 mph top speed at red line of 12500 and that probably won't happen either, at least with me on the bike...

I don't have one but that gives a TE450 & TE510 6525 rpms at 60mph.

As always correct me if I am wrong...

Could anyone look at their tach and let me know what rpm you are running at 60mph?

Good luck on your quest!

Someone know the math to get top speed per redline with given final drive ratios?

Sorry Johnny - got carried away. Did not realize you wanted a focused realistic discussion...but the math should work for you if you plug gear ratios in as needed...best of luck!

I think my TE510 was more like 6700 RPM at 60 MPH, guess it depends on how much of the knobbies are burnt off though.

Put a POS used TrailWing on there now to have some more fun on the street.

If someone could throw together a gearing kit to increase 6th gear by 10%, I am thinking there must be a lot of us that would be willing to put up $300 or so for it. Somebody that could figure out how to do it with the stock parts book would become a Thumpertalk legend...

Is the MX box,5 speed,the same as the TE lower 5gears,if heaps of bikes work with 5gears then why is 6th not an overdrive,this is the only slight problem with my 250,

at lest the bigger bikes can be geared up.I can live with it especially now the motor has freed up an can be reved.

I was also kicking up trying to find more gears a couple times. A taller sixth would be nice, I don't want to change the gearing because 1st and 2nd are just perfect for the tight woods riding I've been doing.

Lukejt

Keep us posted Johnnieairtime.

And for sure--George at Uptite would be the guy to start with.

I could use a taller 6th or even a 7th gear on my dakar bikes.

Dont know about 7th,I think there is a limit to the number of gears allowed by the FIM,

seem to remember it came about in tiddler GP,50 and 80cc road racing,they went nuts with tiny power bands a couple of hundred rpm wide and needed huge numbers of gears,this is a hassy memory and could be BS.All I want in am ideal world is to cruise on transport stages on my TE 250 at 60 mph and at maybe 5000rpm and not acording to a previous post 8000rpm,with the other 5 gears the same.

Johnny,

You might be able to swap out 1 and second from a TE250 of other compatible tranny with lower gearing and then gear up the final drive (Chain-n-sprockets) to end up with more top and still good lower gearing. Look at it from both directions.

I bet with the 250/450/510 in both TC/TE and SM versions there has to be enough gearing selections to make this work.

Additionally I just ran into a guy local that is the man when it comes to stuff like this. Was a Factory KTM mechanic, ran the national race team and has built high end motors for top names. He did/does gearing changes all the time. If there is serious interest in this I will speak to him about this. Very cool guy, top tuner. He wants to tear into my TE and make it a monster but I'm not sure that is what I need. Although if i ever make any money and get the 06 TC250 I want I'm going to let him have at the 04 TE450.

I think my TE510 was more like 6700 RPM at 60 MPH, guess it depends on how much of the knobbies are burnt off though....

A lot of things can make it off by 2% - the math is just give a rough idea what rpm the engine is running at a certain speed...again just a rough idea.

I would have been very happy with 10% actually...

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Fellas...

I'm not a tranny guy, and don't know how to go about this...

But I truly would love to know if anyone has an idea on how I could replace my 5th and 6th (or just 6th) with a taller tranny gear on my '06 TE 510. (if it's available, robbing from an older TE, or WR... or ??)

I'm geared tall 15/48 (stock is 13/50) however I still stab for the upper gear (7th) and it's not there. 1st is still tall, however not too bad for slow crawling.

I'd like to retain where my 1st is now (if not a bit lower) and gain some in the uppers....

ANYONE have an idea where to start??

Who to contact??

Help a TT brutha out.