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I got a question... Why doesn't Honda just put an 01 engine in their new 250s????? It so stupid they would make their engines worse than before :excuseme:

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I got a question... Why doesn't Honda just put an 01 engine in their new 250s????? so stupid they would make their engines worse than before :excuseme:

deffinatley i agree wat is the deal with that

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Or build a motor that's better than an 01!

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I got a question... Why doesn't Honda just put an 01 engine in their new 250s????? It so stupid they would make their engines worse than before :excuseme:

They are not worse :bonk: Didn't you read why he did the conversion? He said that the '01 motor is smoother and more useable. They are not worse they just have a diferent power band. The '01 had the more useable power for his type of riding. The people at Honda are not stupid.

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They are not worse :excuseme: Didn't you read why he did the conversion? He said that the '01 motor is smoother and more useable. They are not worse they just have a diferent power band. The '01 had the more useable power for his type of riding. The people at Honda are not stupid.

i think it is worse..the RC valve is more unnessary maintance and it doesnt seal as good which makes for a poor powerband. not to many people can handle 250s..let alone 250s that run like 125s :bonk:

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i think it is worse..the RC valve is more unnessary maintance and it doesnt seal as good which makes for a poor powerband. not to many people can handle 250s..let alone 250s that run like 125s :excuseme:

Yeah it seems like everyone talks about how much better the 01 and previous engines are and obviously Honda knows this so it just doesn't make sense they wouldn't go back to the old style engines. The same goes for the cr125, they made that engine "worse" back in 98(I think that was the year) and they finally got it back up to speed with the rest of the competition.

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why did honda cr250 motors get weaker after 2001? i dont understand that.

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They changed the engine from a cylinder-reed induced engine to a case-reed. 125s are case-reed induced so the newer cr250s run like extremely fast 125s. Case-reed engines are known for having high peak hp but less torque so the 2001 and older cr250s have more low end power and a more usable powerband.

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Yeah it seems like everyone talks about how much better the 01 and previous engines are and obviously Honda knows this so it just doesn't make sense they wouldn't go back to the old style engines. The same goes for the cr125, they made that engine "worse" back in 98(I think that was the year) and they finally got it back up to speed with the rest of the competition.

its still slow..and the only reason the 98+ 125's have been slow is because of the aluminum frame.. race teams were having problems with them from the beginning, they tried everything from using yamaha rear fenders, cutting the airbox and using full 95' motors (often said to be the fastest cr motor ever)

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They changed the engine from a cylinder-reed induced engine to a case-reed. 125s are case-reed induced so the newer cr250s run like extremely fast 125s. Case-reed engines are known for having high peak hp but less torque so the 2001 and older cr250s have more low end power and a more usable powerband.

I keep commenting on this but it never seems to make it very far.

I believe this myth goes back to the MXA test where they blame the different CR powerband on the case reed design.

I've asked the omniscient ones at MXA how they arrived at that conclusion and I got no answer. I'm surprised they haven't blamed it on the triple clamp offset. :bonk:

If the case reed design is such a poor design for low-end torque, why does KTM use it on all their 2-strokes and Gas Gas has it on their off-road and trials bikes? Several of the KTM engines that had the case reed engine were known to have "violent" low-end response. You never hear anyone saying their KTM or GG lacks for low-end.

Why?

Because they have a better PV design and porting specs.

If the case reed design was to blame for the CR's soft bottom end then how come other case reed engines have strong low-end power?

It's not the case reed that makes the Honda soft on the bottom. It's the way they built it that makes it like that.

And anyone that thinks it's a weak suck hasn't ridden one.

Does my 03 CR have the low-end of my 02 YZ? No, but it's very smooth, linear and fast. It's almost effortless to ride.

It's funny, all the mags complain about it, but one of them, I believe it was DR, did lap time comparisons with different level riders on all the bikes to test their effectiveness. Guess which one consistently had the lowest lap times?

Yep, that weak-suck, no-bottom-end loser of a bike. :excuseme:

They're the best kept secret out there. I'd like to keep it that way. :busted:

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I keep commenting on this but it never seems to make it very far.

I believe this myth goes back to the MXA test where they blame the different CR powerband on the case reed design.

I've asked the omniscient ones at MXA how they arrived at that conclusion and I got no answer. I'm surprised they haven't blamed it on the triple clamp offset. :busted:

If the case reed design is such a poor design for low-end torque, why does KTM use it on all their 2-strokes and Gas Gas has it on their off-road and trials bikes? Several of the KTM engines that had the case reed engine were known to have "violent" low-end response. You never hear anyone saying their KTM or GG lacks for low-end.

Why?

Because they have a better PV design and porting specs.

If the case reed design was to blame for the CR's soft bottom end then how come other case reed engines have strong low-end power?

It's not the case reed that makes the Honda soft on the bottom. It's the way they built it that makes it like that.

And anyone that thinks it's a weak suck hasn't ridden one.

Does my 03 CR have the low-end of my 02 YZ? No, but it's very smooth, linear and fast. It's almost effortless to ride.

It's funny, all the mags complain about it, but one of them, I believe it was DR, did lap time comparisons with different level riders on all the bikes to test their effectiveness. Guess which one consistently had the lowest lap times?

Yep, that weak-suck, no-bottom-end loser of a bike. :excuseme:

They're the best kept secret out there. I'd like to keep it that way. :bonk:

you know my 01 doesnt have alot of low-end, im wondering if the 02+ feels that much diff..i gotta ride one

another reason the rags' dont like the newer cr's is because of that mikuni..its a pain to jet

i emailed MXA and asked why they tried the 05' carb on the 06' crf250 and why they didnt try a kehin on the newer cr's (02+) :bonk:

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The issue with the 02+ motor compared to the 01 is that the 02+ is actually an older design. It's been used for years in a dual-sport bike called the CRM250 over in Japan.

Why go with an older design? My guess surrounds the CRF450. Honda hates 2-strokes, always has. Combine that with the obvious money making design of 4-strokes, and why wouldn't Honda want to hold the CR250 back?

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And anyone that thinks it's a weak suck hasn't ridden one.

That's true for sure. In stock form, the '03 puts out a lot of power at peak; I initially decided to broaden the power band with porting. Wes nailed it two times; the first time around, the power would build gradually and predictably to a monster mid-top end charge (like a 125 on steroids). The second setup was a little more low-end oriented, but still really powerful up top. The '02 up engines do not lack for power. But for my ride area/style, I want a power band that's more broad with more snappy responsiveness down low; a Honda with the heart of a YZ. And I think I can get that with the '01. Then, I'll have two interchangeable engines; a hopped up '03 that spanks out big peak power numbers and a (hopped up?) '01 that is more broad and snappy down low. It could be worse, I could have 3 engines like Kuritaro9 :excuseme: .

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That's true for sure. In stock form, the '03 puts out a lot of power at peak; I initially decided to broaden the power band with porting. Wes nailed it two times; the first time around, the power would build gradually and predictably to a monster mid-top end charge (like a 125 on steroids). The second setup was a little more low-end oriented, but still really powerful up top. The '02 up engines do not lack for power. But for my ride area/style, I want a power band that's more broad with more snappy responsiveness down low; a Honda with the heart of a YZ. And I think I can get that with the '01. Then, I'll have two interchangeable engines; a hopped up '03 that spanks out big peak power numbers and a (hopped up?) '01 that is more broad and snappy down low.

No doubt that the delivery isn't what everyone likes or needs, but the bike gets a rep for being slow - and we both know that ain't so!

It could be worse, I could have 3 engines like Kuritaro9 :excuseme:

Or it could be better... you could have that sweet works suspension he's got! :bonk:

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The issue with the 02+ motor compared to the 01 is that the 02+ is actually an older design. It's been used for years in a dual-sport bike called the CRM250 over in Japan.

Why go with an older design? My guess surrounds the CRF450. Honda hates 2-strokes, always has. Combine that with the obvious money making design of 4-strokes, and why wouldn't Honda want to hold the CR250 back?

the only real similarities,and its slim, is the exhaust valve being servo actuated.aside from that, the motors are completly different. the crm motor was based partly on the nsr roadrace motors. due to the increased pressures of the kyoto protocol, honda was forced to try to reduce the emissions of the crm and all of thier 2stroke streetbikes, thats where the active radical combustion came in around 97 i think...

suzuki also had a 2stroke jeep that was a favorite of the offroad crowd that is now gone. it was called the jimny. now, you can only get the 4stroke engine type.

emissions is a huge deal over here, and thats one of the main reasons that honda no longer sells the cr250 here. the 125 and 85 will be next when they introdce the 4stroke counterparts. im guessing that the cr125 is going to be gone from japan in 08 sinc the 250f is doing well. they may still sell them in the states though,kinda like what they did with the cr500's(could never get those here, export only)

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What's Ironic is the A two stroke and Four stroke race bike produce almost the same emissions.

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What's Ironic is the A two stroke and Four stroke race bike produce almost the same emissions.

whats really ironic in japan is, that the japanese gov. dont test emissions on the diesel vehicles over here during the same inspection...you can pollute all you want with a diesel...trying to find common sense here is a lost cause. book smart? maybe,... common sense? never.... :excuseme:

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i think the EPA should go after all the mfg's..ones who MAKE SUV's ..not friggin 2-stroke dirtbikes!!

theres millions of SUVS burning uncessary amounts of fuel everyday..how many 2-stroke yz's,cr's,kx's,rm's,sx's, etc.. are doing this and is the pollution content level just as bad as the huge amounts Suv's poor into the atomsphere?

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You ever get the jetting dialed on that 01 motor in your bike skip?
Once Kuritaro9 posted the jetting chart, I think I got the needle and MJ in the ball park. Still having trouble with the slow circuit. Even with a 38 SJ (smallest), I can get the engine to idle pretty well, but as soon as I start opening the throttle (way before the needle kicks in), it starts sputtering and smoking like it's way too rich. Does it on the stand and while riding. The manual says 48 SJ, JD says it ought to run really well with a 42 - 45 SJ, and mine sputters like crazy off-idle with a 38 SJ :bonk: ???

The symptoms seem to indicate that the carb is either getting too much fuel from another source (choke??) or not enough air through the air screw circuit at small throttle openings. I blasted the air screw circuit out with carb cleaner last night; no change. I'm going to pull the carb check the choke and air screw circuits today.

Any suggestions are welcome....

On the good news front, when I got the engine to run pretty well above 1/4 throttle, it almost yanked my arms out of socket. Seems like I'm really going to like it if I can get it to run at less than 1/4 throttle :excuseme: .

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