DIY 04 450 Suspension Re-Valve!

[theDogger]

The extra 16's in the compression stack would come from the current stack of 16's under the spacer. I have no idea why there are so many 16's under the spacer. It doesn't seem to me that these do anything.

When you have the BV apart and all the shims removed look at the top of the low-speed valve and you will see holes drilled. That is the bleed. Those shims are for the lowspeed bleed and are standard config even on the OEM BV. They allow for some movement at slow speed to help keep things plush and then close out and cut the bleed to direct the flow to the piston.

theDogger

[KTM-Lew]

Your best bet is to call them or find out which shop did it and ask to trade for all the OEM stuff back.....or call moto-pro and see if they will trade?

Also you can basically take what I have posted and toss it in the trash. It will not apply to the after market jewerly.

theDogger

I would call John at MotoPro and see if he will make some recommendations for valving changes to what you have now. He may just hook you up?

?

[DirtyTrails]

You guys are good. Thanks for identifying my current valve.

I talked to John at Moto-Pro and he wants me to send my forks in for a re-valve.

I think I want to first play around with the stack myself. I also need to determine the spring rate on the main fork spring. If my attempts don’t work I will then decide whether to ship them off or go back to OEM. At least I’ll be learning.

So a follow-up question on the 16’s under the base plate. There is a large stack of 16’s directly under the base plate. To me it appears that these do not encounter any flex due to oil flow so why so many?

[UK STU]

You guys are good. Thanks for identifying my current valve.

I talked to John at Moto-Pro and he wants me to send my forks in for a re-valve.

I think I want to first play around with the stack myself. I also need to determine the spring rate on the main fork spring. If my attempts don’t work I will then decide whether to ship them off or go back to OEM. At least I’ll be learning.

So a follow-up question on the 16’s under the base plate. There is a large stack of 16’s directly under the base plate. To me it appears that these do not encounter any flex due to oil flow so why so many?

all those 16s are there just to pack out the stack and lift the 30.5 spacer

[MRW]

As far as springs, stock Honda crf450 fork springs are polished and will have no markings.

[Denfrac]

Amazing thread! I have a 05 WR450 (not the lowest of seat heights) and I've basically addapted it as much as I can to allow for my 30" inseam, and I've decided to get the suspension lowered. I'm hoping to DIY it myself in stages so that over time I can reach a compromise between being able to touch the ground and handling of the motorcycle. In a nut shell, I was hoping to limit the travel off the suspension, and then set up for my riding ability/weight from that point.

The main question is: what is changed to limit the extension of the forks and rear shock?

[theDogger]

They makes spacers for limiting travel. Look up UK STU. He is in your neck of the woods. He has post in this thread and he can help you out.

theDogger

[UK STU]

Amazing thread! I have a 05 WR450 (not the lowest of seat heights) and I've basically addapted it as much as I can to allow for my 30" inseam, and I've decided to get the suspension lowered. I'm hoping to DIY it myself in stages so that over time I can reach a compromise between being able to touch the ground and handling of the motorcycle. In a nut shell, I was hoping to limit the travel off the suspension, and then set up for my riding ability/weight from that point.

The main question is: what is changed to limit the extension of the forks and rear shock?

give me a call if you need any help

www.shmx.co.uk

cheers stu

[Baron Von Beard]

Yo, Doogie,

I just wanted to give you and KB some props on all of this. My suspension guy decided he was over the business so I was forced to do my own stuff. After going through here I was able to do my own without incident and it turned out damn good the first time.?

Thanks boys. ?

[kelstr]

Yo, Doogie,

I just wanted to give you and KB some props on all of this. My suspension guy decided he was over the business so I was forced to do my own stuff. After going through here I was able to do my own without incident and it turned out damn good the first time.?

Thanks boys.

congratts Josh -- i knew you would get her done !!!? now you can keep her fresh and make small changes when you feel the need as a track gets stupid or so , ---and always keep your bike working good and not send it anywhere !! :ride:

[THE BLUE MANDM]

This is a fantastic thread, one of the most informative I have read on TT. However, I have an '02 Yamaha wr 250f.

Is there anyone who has info on re-valving Yamahas?

I have done many searches and can't find anything.

[skipn8r]

Is there a big difference between 3ea 0.10 shims and 2ea 0.15 shims of the same diameter?

According to the shim conversion relationship at MX-Tech's site, 2 x 0.15 is approximately equal to 7 x 0.1 of the same diameter. A significant difference.

[skipn8r]

So a follow-up question on the 16’s under the base plate. There is a large stack of 16’s directly under the base plate. To me it appears that these do not encounter any flex due to oil flow so why so many?

According to suspensionnetwork.com, the '04 CRF450R did not have a compression adjust stack and neither did my OEM '03 CR250R base valves. But both you and theDogger seem to have one in your '04's. On the '05 CRF450R, suspensionnetwork says that stack should be:

10x16.1

15.1

14.1

13.1

12.1

11.2

16.2

This is the same compression adjust stack that's in my '05 CR250R base valves. It looks like someone softened your compression adjust stack, split the HS portion and moved the remaining shims to the inactive end of the stack (past the 11.2 pivot shim). Interesting that you have 2x13.1 and no 15.1 in there....

[theDogger]

The '04 TC Showa's (only the R models, the X's do not have the bleed) were the first year that had the compression adjustment stack (Bleed) The stacks varied according to production times.....I find suspension network to be incorrect some times or not have the info. But a great reference site.

The '02-'03 TC Showa's did not have the compression adj. stack nor the bleed holes and they were a 20mm BV valve...not a 30mm valve like the '04 and up. The '02-'03 fork are hell to get working good.

I know that the Comp Adj. on my '04 was OEM as I had to remove the factory peen.

Most of the stuff that I have seen that has the aftermarket valves has a modd'ed bleed stack..usually softer..

I have seen some bleed stacks on real fast guys where the bleed in flipped and there are 10-16 against the bleed holes.

theDogger

[skipn8r]

Most of the stuff that I have seen that has the aftermarket valves has a modd'ed bleed stack..usually softer..

I have seen some bleed stacks on real fast guys where the bleed in flipped and there are 10-16 against the bleed holes.

Yeah, I had to remove the peen on both my '03 (no bleed stack) and my '05 (bleed stack) CR BV's, so I knew it showed up somewhere between the two years. The OEM bleed stack in my '05 BV's was:

Bleed holes

10x16.1

15.1

14.1

13.1

12.1

11.2

16.2

It seems like softening the comp adjust stack would increase the adjustment range at the soft end without affecting the full hard setting. I suppose it would also cause each "click" to have more affect. Has anyone experimented with this?

[UK STU]

Yeah, I had to remove the peen on both my '03 (no bleed stack) and my '05 (bleed stack) CR BV's, so I knew it showed up somewhere between the two years. The OEM bleed stack in my '05 BV's was:

Bleed holes

10x16.1

15.1

14.1

13.1

12.1

11.2

16.2

It seems like softening the comp adjust stack would increase the adjustment range at the soft end without affecting the full hard setting. I suppose it would also cause each "click" to have more affect. Has anyone experimented with this?

nearly always pull some of the 16s out and have run stacks like this

3x16

14

12

10

8x.2

then put the other 16s bach in

16x.2

[armourbl]

Just read every post on this thread and have to say it looks very inviting. We had a thread like this some years ago in the Yamaha forums.

For those of you who want to go back to stock pistons, just ask around some of the local suspension shops. They will most likely give them to you free. While you shop around for free pistons, ask some questions and find out who is willing to give you free advise. I had a guy once offer to look over my valve stack (on paper) and even give me some free shims to make an necessary adjustment. Some tuners like to see guys learning the skill. Not all are bad.

I plan to start tearing into my suspension again myself. I'm still intimidated by the shock assembly and bleed procedures, but I'm sure I can find some videos to help me with that.

Now I have to go get some tools and oil. Love a good excuse for new tools.

ben

[Baron Von Beard]

Just read every post on this thread and have to say it looks very inviting. We had a thread like this some years ago in the Yamaha forums.

For those of you who want to go back to stock pistons, just ask around some of the local suspension shops. They will most likely give them to you free. While you shop around for free pistons, ask some questions and find out who is willing to give you free advise. I had a guy once offer to look over my valve stack (on paper) and even give me some free shims to make an necessary adjustment. Some tuners like to see guys learning the skill. Not all are bad.

I plan to start tearing into my suspension again myself. I'm still intimidated by the shock assembly and bleed procedures, but I'm sure I can find some videos to help me with that.

Now I have to go get some tools and oil. Love a good excuse for new tools.

ben

Ben,

After much thought and a little deliberation with KB I just dove in. I used a 4x4 axle socket to remove the caps and made a damper rod holder out of a crappy wrench with the bench grinder. I didn't buy anything but oil. My forks turned out better than I could have expected and it cost me a total of $10! I'll tear into my shock as soon as I feel confident that I can get to KB's shop to recharge it, but until then I'm totally stoked with my forks and how easy and cheap it was. ?

[armourbl]

I've done forks before. I'm not afraid of those at all. The shock is what scares me. I think I just need to see some assemble it and bleed it properly so I'll know I'm doing it right when I do it.

I could take the money I would spend on getting them serviced and buy all the proper tools, maybe even a nitrogen tank and regulator.

My suspension is working great, not stock at all, but simple fluid changes and maybe very small shim changes are still interesting to me. I also want to examine Ricks suspension and compare it to mine. His bike is set up so well. I should be able to match his shim stacks and just use my springs. Worth a try if I can do the work.

For me, I can't completely follow the suggestions in this thread. My suspension is 100% MX Tech, with Enzo subtanks. My biggest issue is I don't know what oil level my forks are set at. I think it is 405 to 415cc, but I could way off. No way of knowing either since my tuner is in Afganistan now.

ben

[armourbl]

I've got a couple of requests/questions for Dogger:

-- Can you create a list of tools, including part numbers and where you bought them? I'm talking the specialty stuff.

-- What chemicals do you use to clean all of the parts?

-- Can you dispose of the used oil just as you would motor oil?

-- Got any tricks for keeping a messy job managable? I've seen guys mount a vise over a catch basin, but that is realistic for the average guy with a two car garage.

ben