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i would most deffinately stay away from atf. i like the suggestion about the pivot shims, but i would consider a few other options too. try something like this. also i would say your 12.04 and 14.04 are just 14 and 12.

17 x .10 (2) *(Drop 1)

10 x .10

17 x .10

16 x .10

14 x .15

12 x .15

10 x .20 *(Switch)

9 x .20 *(Switch)

the pivot shim for your low speed is only allowing your stack to flex .10 mm befor hitting the hs stack. changing that shim will have little effect.. i dont think it will be a sufficient change i would continue to run 5 wt oil. much more common than 7wt. what are you running now for fluid levels and also what psi n2 in shock?

Edited by rpxtreme03

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Where is he bottoming?

Also you state that "He seems to get kicked around on braking bumps and corner exits more than some of the other riders" decreasing the lowspeed and increasing the highspeed will not resolve this issue.....following rpxtreme suggestion will make it worse!

theDogger

Edited by theDogger

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Where is he bottoming?

Also you state that "He seems to get kicked around on braking bumps and corner exits more than some of the other riders" decreasing the lowspeed and increasing the highspeed will not resolve this issue.....following rpxtreme suggestion will make it worse!

theDogger

not trying to impose on your reign or anything here dogger just a suggestion. let me explain my reasoning to this, my stack would stiffen the hsc deep in the stroke by swapping the 10.2 and 9.2. the dropping of the 17.1 would likely soften the rest of the range... from what he has descibed as a riding style for his son i would assume that he is bottoming on the larger jumps and when he is entering and exiting corners the bike is too stiff for him. this would mean the low to mid is too stiff and the HSC is too soft. am i wrong?

he would have to raise his oil level say 30-50cc from where it is now as well to gain that bottoming resistance for those whoppers i believe he is looking for..i may be totaly mis-interpereting his situation here though.

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For the sake of learning, what would you do dogger to resolve the issues that he is having with the RM 85? I know everyone has their own methods and philosophies when it comes to valving so I just wanted to see what you would do.

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For the sake of learning, what would you do dogger to resolve the issues that he is having with the RM 85? I know everyone has their own methods and philosophies when it comes to valving so I just wanted to see what you would do.

so very true. and we can all learn from one another.

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I will post once I talk to him......too hard to gather the need info just from the posts. I try and talk to everyone that asks for help....senseless to just post stacks! with the conversation I can answer questions that would take to long to post! If I have learned anything from the time that I first started is that just reading a post is not enough and suggesting to swap this and that does no good!

theDogger

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I will post once I talk to him......too hard to gather the need info just from the posts. I try and talk to everyone that asks for help....senseless to just post stacks! with the conversation I can answer questions that would take to long to post! If I have learned anything from the time that I first started is that just reading a post is not enough and suggesting to swap this and that does no good!

theDogger

no offense but just talking on the fone does is not all that effective either. you almost have to see it in person to know

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no offense but just talking on the fone does is not all that effective either. you almost have to see it in person to know

Yes it makes a huge difference to me, being able to asked the right questions and to get as much info. as poss. is needed and if you know what to ask and how to get the info you are looking for to get a baseline stack started is very important! Anyone can jump around the forum and cut&paste stacks!

Also lets me know if they have the mechanical know how or if they should just send it in. That is one of the most important things to me.

He has a setup that I gave him for a baseline stack to try and he is in the process of testing now but weather is not cooperating right now. I will update!

theDogger

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you can ask the same questions on here thats all i was saying. either way you dont always know completely without seeing it.

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Wow, lots of info to get through here, but I made it. I am turning my supermoto into an offroad bike. The shock had been revalved by the previous owner and here is what I found inside, not too far off from some of the other baselines around here, and not what I was expecting.

Biggest changes to the LSC stack, less 44x.2 and 44x.15, but 2 extra 42x.2 and 3 39x.25 instead of a single 35x.15. Can someone help me understand how removing larger shims from the bottom and adding more smaller shims further up the stack affects the damping? HSC also has 2 42x.2 missing, with almost no change to the rest of the stack. Wouldn't this lessen damping?

LSC

8-44 x .20

4-44 x .15

2-42 x .2

3-39 x .25

HSC

1-40 x .25

1-38 x .15

1-36 x .25

1-34 x .25

1-32 x .25

1-30 x .3

1-30 x .15

1-28 x .3

1-27 x .3

1-26 x .3

1-25 x .3

1-24 x .3

1-23 x .3

1-22 x .3

1-21 x .3

LSR

1-40 x .25

1-26 x .1

HSR1-40 x .3

1-40 x .2

1-38 x .3

1-36 x .3

1-34 x .3

1-32 x .3

1-30 x .3

1-28 x .3

1-27 x .3

1-26 x .3

Thanks for looking and if there are obvious changes I can make to make it more appropriate for hare scrambles I am listening.

Edited by yeroc40

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Hey Dogger, started reading this post. On page 4 just now and have to say it is enlightening to see someone come so far with their own tuning.

Anyway, got a stock CR250R 07 that I just started riding again after it lay in the garage for 4 years. Back then I weighed 165lbs and thought the stock suspension was ok, not perfect but ok. I ride moto and am a competent mid pack B class rider.

My race bikes have always had the suspension done. But now that I don't race I am looking to tinker with it on my own. So my dilemma has been that although the HS fork compression is a touch harsh which I suspect is from riding down in the stroke due to me being heavier, I have had to add 15ml to stock oil level to stop the bottoming and try and hold it up on the stroke. The shock actually is not to bad. I now weigh 190.

The bike is completely stock and apart from an oil change has never been serviced. Only 20 hours on the bike. So my plans over the next coming 3-4 weeks (work away from home mon-fri). Is to strip them down, replace the bushes and start playing with the stacks when I get a hold of shims in the UK (Which I haven't found yet). Anyway, once I get started would you be willing to help me through it. as I don't know anyone personally or in forums that would give up information like yourself.

I will keep reading up on your descriptions and other threads. I understand in theory how everything works (Mechanical Rotating Engineer to trade) but have yet to strip it down that far.

Cheers, Kev.

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Hello Dogger, I have a couple questions to ask you:

1-Have you ever tried either modifying the shock piston band by very slightly reducing the thickness of the band, or trying out the new teflon coated shock piston bands that MX-Tech sells? I read a thread in the Suspension forums that member MRW started on the new MX tech Low Friction Piston Rings and there appears to be a lot of praise for them. I am thinking about trying one of the two options mentioned.

2-Is there any way you can post detailed instructions for shock rebuilding (specifically putting it back together and the bleed process)?

Thanks!

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Hello Dogger, I have a couple questions to ask you:

1-Have you ever tried either modifying the shock piston band by very slightly reducing the thickness of the band, or trying out the new teflon coated shock piston bands that MX-Tech sells? I read a thread in the Suspension forums that member MRW started on the new MX tech Low Friction Piston Rings and there appears to be a lot of praise for them. I am thinking about trying one of the two options mentioned.

2-Is there any way you can post detailed instructions for shock rebuilding (specifically putting it back together and the bleed process)?

Thanks!

This is actually in this thread already. Dogger and I have talked quite a bit about condensing this info into a more coherent format. Now that the site is pretty much done for the remodel and the big changes are complete we should get on this.

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My bad, I should have searched. I just didn't think of it at the time.

So, I found what I was looking for as posted by KTM-Lew:

1. Fill inverted shock body with fluid about 1/2 way up the reservoir body. Let set for 5 minutes to allow fluid to perk through adjuster.

2. Fill reservoir again about 1/2 way and insert neutral shaped baldder...fluid MUST overflow. Install clip and pull bladder up to clip. Put 10lbs of air in bladder (mountain bike pump works nicely).

3. Close compression adjuster. Fill shock body to within 3/4" of opening...I use a body extension to make the next deal easier...insert shaft at an angle and rotate to let air perk out.

4. Plunge shaft into body about 3"...stroke fast on comp, slower on rebound. Don't pull up far enough to expose rebound bleed hole...if you do, just keep o bleeding...

5. Once bled pull shaft up as far as possible and slip sealhead in place. Make note of bleed hole...lean body assembly slightly to allow air to burp out sealhead bleed hole. Push sealhead in as far as possible. Open comp adjuster and release air from bladder while pressing sealhead in.

6. Install sealhead clip, pull shaft out to make certain clip is fully seated & install end cap...charge shock.

7. Flip shock over so comp assembly is at highest point. Stroke shock with comp & reb set to several settings. Does it feel OK? Might not be able to full bottom shock due to overfill of oil...if it "shoots out" on rebound you have a big pocket of air...

8. IF OK in above step, release charge, flip shock so comp adjster faces up & loosen compression adjuster assembly till fluid starts to perk out. Tighten compression adjuster when oil flows stops. Charge shock, set clickers to 12 & 12 and see how shock feels.

I found a little trick that was mentioned in the Suspension forums where small wires are placed between the face shim and the piston face (on the compression side; 4 wires total equally distanced apart) so when the piston is submerged into the shock body and oil, the oil is able to pass through the compression ports easily. After inserting the shock shaft, the wires are removed by pulling them while the piston is submerged.

As for the MX-tech low friction piston ring, I ordered one this morning and will install it whenever it gets here. I will update you all on my findings.

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All of that is so much extra work and only needed more on Pumpkins which are a pain to bleed, If I get a chance tonight I will post the steps for bleeding a Showa that is used by the Factory Showa Techs at the races...Simple and will purge 99% of the air. It is next to impossible to get all the air out.

theDogger

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All of that is so much extra work and only needed more on Pumpkins which are a pain to bleed, If I get a chance tonight I will post the steps for bleeding a Showa that is used by the Factory Showa Techs at the races...Simple and will purge 99% of the air. It is next to impossible to get all the air out.

theDogger

correction all of that is extra precaustious measures lol

do it nice or do it twice haha i am very interested to see what the showa experts are doing though.

i think every one is excited to read this!

thanks dogger

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anyone have any advice for me? i sent this in a PM to theDogger, but i know he's probably busy/tired of coming up with stacks for people, so ill post it here to if anyones got advice for me if he doesnt have time.

-2000 cr250, 0.49kg front, 6.0kg rear (sag at 101mm), using pro honda ss-7 5wt oil front and rear

-im 6'3" and 250lbs in street clothes

-im not that fast on tracks, but pretty quick in the desert. i dont race so i dont know what an A/B/C rider is trackwise, but if i had to guess id say im a C?

-i ride a mixture of desert, and tracks such as Cahuilla Creek in temecula and rpmx near golden acorn casino (maybe youre familiar with these california tracks). i dont want a mush bucket and ill easily sacrifice desert performance for track performance. my issue with the forks now is that i like the stiffness on jump landings/bottoming, but braking bumps and the small chop hurt. looking to soften up for the small crap but keep the bottoming resistance if possible. also the front end seems to understeer and go wide more than i think it should.

stock fork stacks

Base Valve:

20.4 (rebound plate)

piston

1-20.1

1-19.1

1-18.1

1-17.1

1-16.1

1-15.1

1-14.1

1-13.1

1-12.1

1-11.1

1-10.1

1-9.2

4-16.3

stock Midvalve with 0.2 float:

1-17 x 2.5mm washer

4-16.3

1-11.2

1-12.1

1-13.1

1-14.1

1-16.1

1-12.15

1-18.1

2-20.1

piston

3-20.1

4-17.1

3-10.15

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