You've got the wrong enemy, I think.

so whose the enemy?

I still dont know how you could claim to belong to the sierra club and still ride public land? A house that is divided against it self can not stand. everything I have ever read on their own literature is about closing public land to motorized vehicles, all their members that I have ever met at Forest Service/BLM "town meetings" all vocally echo the same message: they dont want us riding "public" lands.

I think you need to pick a side and stand for something, if you dont stand for something you'll fall for anything.

As far as I am concerned the lines have been drawn, the sierra club, suwa and the like, are most definately THE ENEMY. And then the afore mentioned knuckle heads that ride like idiots that make the rest of us look bad, they are not helping our cause either.

so whose the enemy?

IDIOTS, EXTREMISTS, and SELFISH PEOPLE.

The parking lot show off that spins donuts in parking lot and covers cars and people with dust is far too common. The same morons turn a muddle puddle into a deep hole. The whole concept of treading lightly and leaving very little impact on the trails is lost on them. They are the worst enemies.

The other big enemy are those who have made up their mind that trails are for hikers only. I have seeing this battle for 30 years with motorcycles and 20 years with mountain bikes. Sharing is something they have no intention of doing.

I think it's appropriate for the eco-nazis to don their flameproof underware.

Cause' if they were on fire, I sure as hell won't even piss in their general direction.

Note I'm not referring to someone that simply loves the outdoors and wants to enjoy it. I'm referring to the eco terrorists, and the scum that work tirelessly to stop us from enjoying the great outdoors on our bikes, those that would put wire across the trails, or those that would steal our OHV fund money for things that are counter-productive to OHV use.

So Matt, I would guess that whoever-these-folks-are would say you are a moto-nazi judging by your post. Now I understand you are just angry and feel assaulted, but then these so-called eco-nazis feel exactly the same way. They look at the destruction a bunch of dirt bikes, 4wheelers, and ATVs can do, and think they are defending their turf.

So now we have a standoff. Great! everybody can swear and get their blood pressure up, but absolutely nothing positive will get accomplished.

Is that really what you want? Or would you actually like to know that some places will be preserved for us to go riding?

flame on.

When I have to cut down Razor Wire at Neck Height "NO JOKE" strung up from an Eco-Terrorist who unfortunately most likely supports the Sierra Club or Earth First, I have no choice but to choose harsh words like Al Qaeda, it's all about LAND right?

Look everybody gets angry about the wire stretched across trails, though its pretty rare, thank goodness. I'll bet there's less than a thousand people in the country who sympathize with that sort of sabotage.

"Its all about the land", you say. Well what do you mean? Do you mean you should have exclusive rights to public lands, or that you should be able to share the land with others? How about the BLM selling off public land for development? Is that going to provide more riding space or less? Who fights them?

What would you do if you were in charge?

Ducks Unlimited is a hunter's group that has long cooperated with environmentalists to create and maintain wetlands. Maybe following their lead and cooperating with folks who just want to preserve something would make things better for all?

Or maybe its more fun to fight?

Here is an interesting article from City Bike newspaper. It talks about the future of the OHV program and how some of the goals of environmentalists and OHV users are the same. Mainly we both want to conserve natural resources so we can enjoy them in the future.

http://www.citybike.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=27

AN INTERVIEW WITH DEPARTING OHV DIRECTOR DAVE WIDELL

Ducks Unlimited is a good example of conserving the environment. However, there will be groups like HCI that hate all firearms and paint everyone with the same brush. Too many eco groups just see a banned motorcycle is a good motorcycle.

Excellent article. Thanks!

Establishes my point quite well.

plus

New OHV area over by Riverside will be good for those folks.

Have to start reading CityBike.

I still dont know how you could claim to belong to the sierra club and still ride public land? A house that is divided against it self can not stand. everything I have ever read on their own literature is about closing public land to motorized vehicles, all their members that I have ever met at Forest Service/BLM "town meetings" all vocally echo the same message: they dont want us riding "public" lands.

I think you need to pick a side and stand for something, if you dont stand for something you'll fall for anything.

As far as I am concerned the lines have been drawn, the sierra club, suwa and the like, are most definately THE ENEMY. And then the afore mentioned knuckle heads that ride like idiots that make the rest of us look bad, they are not helping our cause either.

Er, um, the Sierra Club, the organization, not the generic use of the name to mean ALL enviro's, is different from most others. It is not a top-down heirarchy, it's more a grass-roots collection. There's an opinion for every member.

More to the point, a bunch of cliches isn't the same thing as thinking through the problem. Stop a second and try to figure out what you are saying.

Do you really want to belong to an org, a club, a country, where everyone thinks alike? Not me, brother, and I'll bet not you either.

OTOH it would be nice to get things organized, so that people can have fun without stepping on each other's toes. There's a place for non-motorized wilderness, and we probably need more of it, not less. There's a place for more OHV trails too.

Me, I'd like to get rid of Wal Mart. But they aren't likely to make me dictator any time soon.

:ride:

So Matt, I would guess that whoever-these-folks-are would say you are a moto-nazi judging by your post.

Spoken like a true Sierra Club Member.... :ride::ride:

Excellent article. Thanks!

Establishes my point quite well.

plus

New OHV area over by Riverside will be good for those folks.

Have to start reading CityBike.

The Riverside OHV property purchase would be a good thing except that less than 20% of the property would be available to OHV use.

Ride on

Brewster

OTOH it would be nice to get things organized, so that people can have fun without stepping on each other's toes. There's a place for non-motorized wilderness, and we probably need more of it, not less. There's a place for more OHV trails too.

How much wilderness area would be "ENOUGH" for you in California?

At 14 million acres (21,875 square miles), the current California wilderness area is larger than nine states. And that doesn't include the land that is not designated as wilderness but OHV use is prohibited on.

Keep informed and active

Ride on

Brewster

CERA...assistant LAO

Er, um, the Sierra Club, the organization, not the generic use of the name to mean ALL enviro's, is different from most others. It is not a top-down heirarchy, it's more a grass-roots collection. There's an opinion for every member.

More to the point, a bunch of cliches isn't the same thing as thinking through the problem. Stop a second and try to figure out what you are saying.

Do you really want to belong to an org, a club, a country, where everyone thinks alike? Not me, brother, and I'll bet not you either.

So why do I think Greenies aren't the enemy of trail riders?

Same reason I don't think trail riders are the enemy of hikers, horse riders or campers. RV owners aren't the enemy of motorcyclists, though I admit to feeling that way some days.

"Trail riders" are "hikers"...."Horse riders" are "Trail riders"...... "Trail riders" are "Campers"...And I'm pretty sure every "Trail rider" owns an "RV".

Stop a second and try to figure out what you are saying.

Its Multi-Use or No use...thats it...pick a side. The "No use" side has already takin enough of the trails and road that have been in the "roadless" areas

And now its "Geesh...why won't they compromise and just have half" well its because after all the "halfs" theres only 1/10 left.

The Riverside OHV property purchase would be a good thing except that less than 20% of the property would be available to OHV use.

Ride on

Brewster

Aren't there two OHV properties being purchase for MILLIONS that have ZERO OHV use?

So Matt, I would guess that whoever-these-folks-are would say you are a moto-nazi judging by your post.

Spoken like a true Sierra Club Member.... :ride::ride:

heh heh

Yup, time to go polish my birkenstocks with chain wax.

:ride:

How much wilderness area would be "ENOUGH" for you in California?

At 14 million acres (21,875 square miles), ...

Brewster

CERA...assistant LAO

Good question.

Where does the 14 million acres figure come from?

How many miles of fire-road and trail are there?

Does the lack of street plates on most dirt bikes make it hard to connect fire roads and trails to make long rides?

( mine has plates, so I have no sense of the issue there)

Would you like to see more greenspace of all kinds in general, or would you personally be comfortable with less?

Not easy to answer, but worth chewing over IMO.

cheers,

Two Words....."National Parks".....If you want quiet, go there. Otherwise face the music and deal with population explosion and the invention of the dirt bike. I will always fight those who try to shut me down. There are plenty of places to ride in this state now. Just as there are plenty of "quiet" places to visit. Let it ride mother fn gready tree hugers. Stay away from our riding areas!!!......Hope to meet you soon

Good question.

Where does the 14 million acres figure come from?

How many miles of fire-road and trail are there?

The 14 million figure comes from: http://www.calwild.org/resources/facts_64wa.php

The typical OHVer isn't looking for a fire-road to to ride on.......zzzzzzz!

I haven't a clue as to how many trail miles there are. I do know that the number is diminishing each year. The federal route designation program is going to reduce it even more.

Keep informed and active

Ride on

Brewster

CERA...assistant LAO

Aren't there two OHV properties being purchase for MILLIONS that have ZERO OHV use?

I think that one of the properties you're referring to is the Deer Creek property that is 5 miles from Prairie City OHV park near Sacramento. That one was completed a couple of years ago.

Keep informed and active

Ride on

Brewster

CERA...assistant LAO

Ok Brewster I see the site. It actually says there are 7 million acres of potential wilderness too, but its a little unclear on the difference as it relates to riding.

I'll be back online next Wednesday, and you can take me through the trail vs fire road difference if you are still interested.

Back here in the Los Padres the (some of the ) fire roads are jeep tracks, only passable in many places with 4wheel drive in low gear, and lots of places difficult for me on the Suzy ( complete newbie) with rocks and ruts and so forth. In Idaho where I just went, the fire road was tough enough that I crashed twice to the great amusement of my friends ( they have about 10,000x more miles experience than I ).

later,

Motosaurus, you still have not told us how much Wilderness Area is enough for you. You've stated you think there should be more so I take it 14 million acres is not enough. There is a big difference between conservation and all out shutting down public access to our public lands.

Organizations such as the BRC have tried to work with environmental groups in the past and have been stabbed in the back. Why dont you join the BRC and read up on all the law suits and fights that are going on with our public lands.

This is a great country, you have the freedom to believe whatever you want and I believe your perspective is wrong. I also believe the longer you enjoy dirtbiking you will see more of our public land being taken away from us (and not just dirtbikers but horse riders, mtn bikers, snowmobilers, etc...) and you will see the light and hopefully get involved in saving our public lands from extremists. :ride: