Suspension setup 101 for borderline weight zone rider

[a_gunslinger]

Long time TTer, first time Suspension poster.

Have an 05 CRF250R. I am 190-200 lbs. I think I am on the edge of the suspnsion specs or this bike.

What brings me to you is that there is is simple, yet defiant, jump I have been trying to make for some time that, after much consideration, I think points to my suspension not being tuned for me. Its a very straightforward soft double coming out of a turn. Jump face is 3 feet high, gradual and rounded lip (no kicker). It spans about 15-20 feet to a flatish double landing. Its on the imtermediate track, and a lot of new to intermediates skip it because its deceptively tricky fo many.

Why do I think its suspension? I have hit it in 2nd high rpm and 3rd gear mid high but still keep missing the top. I watched a few people that were making it and asked them what speed they were in - they were in 2nd (both on 250s). Yesterday I actually was able to follow a rider who was making it and hit it just behind him at the same speed. He sails over and clears the landing, I hit hard, again, on top.

Now Im not a total noob. I can clear tabletops and other 30 ft doubles with kickers. But there is somthing about this gentle non kicker I cant clear and I am beginning to think the only think left is suspension dialing. BTW, my sag is set correctly I believe.

So if I am 190# and I "think" I need more rebound to jump better, would that make sense? I also notice that on table tops I tend to fly lower and straighter than those around me, another clue?

Hope that is not too vague but would like to determine how to get suspension dialed in for an intermediate track. Someone also told me they thought I should put the stock 450 springs front and back into my 250 as I am borderline wieght - seemed to help them tremendously at 200#s. Thoguhts? Where to start this diagnostic problem?

[heff770]

I'm not a pro or anything but I was faced with the same problem. I am on a rmz250 and between 185-195. I sent my suspension both front and back to factory connection. This made a night and day difference. Now if you dont want to spend the money on the whole revalving I would deffently call them and ask what shocks they recomend for your weight. The difference should be big. Hope this helps.

[a_gunslinger]

I'm not a pro or anything but I was faced with the same problem. I am on a rmz250 and between 185-195. I sent my suspension both front and back to factory connection. This made a night and day difference. Now if you dont want to spend the money on the whole revalving I would deffently call them and ask what shocks they recomend for your weight. The difference should be big. Hope this helps.

What did it cost you? Im not against it. I just want to try clickers first since I have never even fiddled with them. Wont help for lift really but 2 respected members said I really need to try the stock 450 fork and shock springs in my 250 - made a big difference for them.

[shockdoc]

You are a little on the soft side concerning spring rates. Not only will you have a rebound problem trying to "catch air" and clear the jump but being on the soft side allows the bike to collapse to far on compression (soft spring) and also hinder bike "lift".

For now maybe try a little less "free sag" on the shock while stiffening the comp. and poss. speeding up the rebound.

Go a click or 2 stiffer on fork comp. and a click faster on reb. too maybe.

Like you said if you could find a set of stock 450 springs I'd go for it.......

doc

[a_gunslinger]

You are a little on the soft side concerning spring rates. Not only will you have a rebound problem trying to "catch air" and clear the jump but being on the soft side allows the bike to collapse to far on compression (soft spring) and also hinder bike "lift".

For now maybe try a little less "free sag" on the shock while stiffening the comp. and poss. speeding up the rebound.

Go a click or 2 stiffer on fork comp. and a click faster on reb. too maybe.

Like you said if you could find a set of stock 450 springs I'd go for it.......

doc

Thanks doc. I actually have the stock 450s on hand,. Would the changes you specify be in addition to the new springs or instead of the new springs?

Im enough of a suspension noob that I dont quite get this statement:

Thanks!

[shockdoc]

I would install the 450 springs then put your clickers back closer to the middle (stock settings) and then go out and test. From here you can then start your fine tuning with the clickers.

doc

[D1PP1N]

sitting down and tugging back on the bars up the face of the jump is alot cheaper then suspension try that first. He is making it cuz he is seat bouncing it.

[Lorduss]

i agree, seatbounce is the key, suspension helps but its not the key for this.

im 200 pounds on a 03 450r, my shocks feel realy soft for me. but i can use this to launch me even higher on jumps. id say 2nd pinned, and give it the big slam of the gas right at the bottom of the jump. getting up to speed and somewhat coasting to it well also throw you lower, take it slow, but think bounce and throttle on the face. you well clear it no prob.

[a_gunslinger]

sitting down and tugging back on the bars up the face of the jump is alot cheaper then suspension try that first. He is making it cuz he is seat bouncing it.

I watched them carefully, not seating bouncing it. Off the seat the whole time.

[shockdoc]

I get the whole 'seat bounce" thing and how different riding skills can help a rider with various obsticales on a track but at 200 lbs. he is still fighting with soft springs which will affect jumping and the ability to "catch air"........

doc

[a_gunslinger]

I get the whole 'seat bounce" thing and how different riding skills can help a rider with various obsticales on a track but at 200 lbs. he is still fighting with soft springs which will affect jumping and the ability to "catch air"........

doc

Thanks doc

I am going to increase rebound front and back and check for improvement. I will still also try the stock 450 springs front and back. When I put the stock 450 springs in should I start by setting the clickers back to 250 stock settings?

[shockdoc]

Thanks doc

I am going to increase rebound front and back and check for improvement. I will still also try the stock 450 springs front and back. When I put the stock 450 springs in should I start by setting the clickers back to 250 stock settings?

Don't increase the reb. untill the new springs....if needed. Yes, start the clickers at stock settings (about halfway) then tune from there.

doc

[a_gunslinger]

Don't increase the reb. untill the new springs....if needed. Yes, start the clickers at stock settings (about halfway) then tune from there.

doc

Doc, out of curiosity, why wouldnt increasing rebound on current setup help any?

[shockdoc]

Doc, out of curiosity, why wouldnt increasing rebound on current setup help any?

Because when you are sprung a little on the soft side your suspension will want to compress to easily and ride low in the stroke so by increasing rebound it will make it stay lower (in the stroke) longer and not provide as much lift.

doc

[a_gunslinger]

Ok, have the 450 springs in front and rear. Set to stock settings. They make a BIG difference on landings - much plusher (maybe a tad stiff). But its done nothing for lift.

So revisiting this thread I started a while back. I need to increase rebound in single clicks front a rear, testing in btwn. Correct? Thanks guys.

[mog]

It still sounds like you already have too much rebound, start by going softer on rebound to get more lift.

[a_gunslinger]

It still sounds like you already have too much rebound, start by going softer on rebound to get more lift.

Thanks mog. Sounds like I have the concept of rebound backwards. I thought Increased Rebound would push/launch/increase the bikes life (rebound) upward. Other way around?

[skipn8r]

Thanks mog. Sounds like I have the concept of rebound backwards. I thought Increased Rebound would push/launch/increase the bikes life (rebound) upward. Other way around?

Normally, when someone says "increased rebound", they really mean increased rebound damping. Sounds like you want the opposite - reduced rebound damping. In plain English: turning the rebound clickers (fork and shock) counterclockwise will allow the wheel rebound more quickly and will allow you to catch more air off of jumps. Have you tried setting the clickers all to stock settings with the new springs installed? BTW, all the clicker settings in the manual are given as clicks out (counterclockwise) from fully in (completely clockwise).

[a_gunslinger]

Normally, when someone says "increased rebound", they really mean increased rebound damping. Sounds like you want the opposite - reduced rebound damping. In plain English: turning the rebound clickers (fork and shock) counterclockwise will allow the wheel rebound more quickly and will allow you to catch more air off of jumps. Have you tried setting the clickers all to stock settings with the new springs installed? BTW, all the clicker settings in the manual are given as clicks out (counterclockwise) from fully in (completely clockwise).

Hey skipn8r! Yes, all clickers are set to stock witht he 450 all round springs in place. Will experiment with "counter clockwise/less rebound dampening" front a rear, in one click incremements. Thanks. Will report back.

[27_mod]

I know on my CR when the rebound is clear to the Soft setting it's feels like a pogo stick, I can just about bunny hop the thing. Just a idea to try, soften the rebound and throw all your weight into the face of the jump to compress it all the way and it should really get some good height for ya. I don't claim to know a thing but it seems to work for me. Those doubles right after turns can be tricky.