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Sat August 5th Motoland open ride

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Sounds like a fantastic thing, So i recover all day Sunday. Before returning to work. I heard a rumor goin round Mr Rick has plans too knock the whoops down a little,Mellow out the castle jump. and some other novice/Intermediate friendly changes too the 2.5 mile racecourse. Hope this stuff comes true.. :thumbsup:

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I recommend some small and easy jumps for the average rider like me! Like a Baby-Bob. :thumbsup:

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Hey Nikki U n Red been to alotta tracks.What do u think is the optimum track make up as far as difficulty level, In correlation too rider attendance..

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I know you didn't ask me, but Bruce and I were talking about this the other day at Joliet. Most of the tracks I have been too, actual race tracks not the Buffalo's or Fox Valley's, most of the riders are beginner, C, or Vet riders (usually they have their son or daughter there). Even the race classes are predominately true beginner or C level riders. Most tracks the C class outnumbers the B and A class combined and sometimes 2 to 1.

Since that's where the volume of rider skills are, I would think you want something that would not intimidate a C rider or Vet rider that has to go to work on Monday, but challenging enough to allow the riders to better their skills. I think that's why Walnut is so loved, none of their jumps are over challenging yet they have enough variety to keep the B guys interested.

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i wont be able to make it out for a couple of weeks since my folks are in town, but motoland was EPIC last sunday.....

.....it was hot as hell in the AM, but the track was nice and moist, then a big clould blocked the sun and the temps dropped for the rest of the day.

as far as the layout, i like it and will ride there no matter what, but i think the castle and bobs could be toned down a bit....its a big track and i could see how the beginner type riders might be a bit intimidated. Another thing about motoland is that the people running it really care about putting on a great facility, ive ridden in SoCal and in England and there arent many places that have an ambulance and flaggers for open riding, let alone primo track prep and watering.

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Motoland is an excellent track....it is intimidating for the novice rider though. That being said, I am begginner/intermediate and I made it around just fine and didn't kill myself........it REALLY is an amazing track. :thumbsup:

However, the one thing that stops me from going (and I live only 50 minutes away) is the lack of a kids riding area. I cannot blame them for that because the track alone is enough to take care. As a result, I will not be there until my son gets better on his CR85......I am hoping by next summer.

I recommend anyone who has not been there to go...... :ride:

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What the hell is the castle? :thumbsup:

I personally really dig Motoland! I don't find it intimidating since I ride their C practice, and feel that it's very safe. It's a little different when I've went out with A/B on a busy day. As for jumps, there are a few I can clear, but I wish there was more. Of course I bypass the Bob's, and I don't mess with the two other step-ups. But it would be a little more fun to me if there was a few more easy jumps, like the little double in the back before the newer step-up (maybe that's the castle?).

I do, however, have some friends that don't really care for Motoland, mainly because they either don't like sand, the jumps, or the flow (some have a hard time memorizing the long track, for example, which way the track turns on top of a hill).

I think Ron hit it on the head, at a typical race, the minis, C riders, and Plus class riders outnumber the A/B riders almost 3:1. At a practice session, it's probably similar, but depends on the track. For example, Motoland gets lots of fast guys at practice because they have cool stuff for them, like the Bobs, but they don't get much for Minis (50s/60s/80s).

Back to the ratio, I think it makes sense to build a track for your C/Mini riders, and have 2-3 sections/jumps that are more taylored for the A/B guys to show their stuff, like Motoland does with the Bobs (and the goat path for us mortals). Another example, Megacross has a small tabletop, and about 80 feet out is a rolled landing. Almost every A rider "triples" to it, but I've only seen 2-3 B riders do it. For the other 90% of the riders not doing it, it's just a small table to scrub some speed on. Megacross also has two tables in a row that the fastest of A riders jump from one to the other. But the other 95% just hit the two tables. Or one of my favorites is a "triple tabletop" jump, where there is a stepped double landing and also a triple landing. Or I think Joliet does a good job of filling the track with small/medium sized doubles that most 60cc riders can do (even some 50's), some of which have triple landings for the faster bunch. I also agree with Ron that Walnut is a popular practice place because the jumps are primarily medium-sized tables, but the fast flow is still fun for the A/B guys too.

Here's some ratio support - D-17 Race examples for the ratio of Mini/C/Plus riders to A/B riders (gimme a break, I'm an accountant):

Megacross 7-22 - Ratio: 2.7 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 194

50's (31); 65's (35); 85's (41); 125/250C (44); Plus Classes (43); Women (14)

A/B - Total = 71

125/250A (23); 125/250B (29); 14-24 (13); 4-STRK (6)

Byron 7-9 Nuke - Ratio: 2.7 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 188

50's (27); 65's (25); 85's (23); 125C/250C/S-BOY/2-STRK/WMN (43); Plus Classes (59); VINT (11)

A/B - Total = 70

125/250A (11); 125/250B (38); 14-24 (12); OPEN (9)

Byron 7-30 Non-Nuke - Ratio: 8.4 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 76

50's (14); 65's (12); 85's (7); 125/250C (22); S-BOY/VINT (6); Plus Classes (15)

A/B - Total = 9

125/250A (2); 125/250B/14-24 (11)

Walnut 5-21 - Ratio: 2.6 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 255

50's (38); 65's (26); 85's (57); 125/250C (45); S-BOY/VINT (16); WMN (17); Plus Classes (56)

A/B - Total = 99

125/250A (16); 125/250B (48); 14-24 (31); OPEN (4)

If you look at Motoland's race results (and they cancelled remaining races this year due to low turnout), you'll see they they get a decent amount of A/B riders, because it's a killer track for the fast dudes, but not a good turnout for the minis, C's, and Plus classes. And if you're trying to be profitable, the A riders are a wash as it's a cash payout class. Although for practice only, the A/B riders are a good target market, since they really don't have anywhere else like Motoland to train/practice. But if Motoland could somehow make a few small changes to attract more C/Mini riders, that would be the best of both worlds, since they already have such a strong A/B practice rider base.

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What the hell is the castle? :ride:

I personally really dig Motoland! I don't find it intimidating since I ride their C practice, and feel that it's very safe. It's a little different when I've went out with A/B on a busy day. As for jumps, there are a few I can clear, but I wish there was more. Of course I bypass the Bob's, and I don't mess with the two other step-ups. But it would be a little more fun to me if there was a few more easy jumps, like the little double in the back before the newer step-up (maybe that's the castle?).

I do, however, have some friends that don't really care for Motoland, mainly because they either don't like sand, the jumps, or the flow (some have a hard time memorizing the long track, for example, which way the track turns on top of a hill).

I think Ron hit it on the head, at a typical race, the minis, C riders, and Plus class riders outnumber the A/B riders almost 3:1. At a practice session, it's probably similar, but depends on the track. For example, Motoland gets lots of fast guys at practice because they have cool stuff for them, like the Bobs, but they don't get much for Minis (50s/60s/80s).

Back to the ratio, I think it makes sense to build a track for your C/Mini riders, and have 2-3 sections/jumps that are more taylored for the A/B guys to show their stuff, like Motoland does with the Bobs (and the goat path for us mortals). Another example, Megacross has a small tabletop, and about 80 feet out is a rolled landing. Almost every A rider "triples" to it, but I've only seen 2-3 B riders do it. For the other 90% of the riders not doing it, it's just a small table to scrub some speed on. Megacross also has two tables in a row that the fastest of A riders jump from one to the other. But the other 95% just hit the two tables. Or one of my favorites is a "triple tabletop" jump, where there is a stepped double landing and also a triple landing. Or I think Joliet does a good job of filling the track with small/medium sized doubles that most 60cc riders can do (even some 50's), some of which have triple landings for the faster bunch. I also agree with Ron that Walnut is a popular practice place because the jumps are primarily medium-sized tables, but the fast flow is still fun for the A/B guys too.

Here's some ratio support - D-17 Race examples for the ratio of Mini/C/Plus riders to A/B riders (gimme a break, I'm an accountant):

Megacross 7-22 - Ratio: 2.7 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 194

50's (31); 65's (35); 85's (41); 125/250C (44); Plus Classes (43); Women (14)

A/B - Total = 71

125/250A (23); 125/250B (29); 14-24 (13); 4-STRK (6)

Byron 7-9 Nuke - Ratio: 2.7 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 188

50's (27); 65's (25); 85's (23); 125C/250C/S-BOY/2-STRK/WMN (43); Plus Classes (59); VINT (11)

A/B - Total = 70

125/250A (11); 125/250B (38); 14-24 (12); OPEN (9)

Byron 7-30 Non-Nuke - Ratio: 8.4 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 76

50's (14); 65's (12); 85's (7); 125/250C (22); S-BOY/VINT (6); Plus Classes (15)

A/B - Total = 9

125/250A (2); 125/250B/14-24 (11)

Walnut 5-21 - Ratio: 2.6 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 255

50's (38); 65's (26); 85's (57); 125/250C (45); S-BOY/VINT (16); WMN (17); Plus Classes (56)

A/B - Total = 99

125/250A (16); 125/250B (48); 14-24 (31); OPEN (4)

If you look at Motoland's race results (and they cancelled remaining races this year due to low turnout), you'll see they they get a decent amount of A/B riders, because it's a killer track for the fast dudes, but not a good turnout for the minis, C's, and Plus classes. And if you're trying to be profitable, the A riders are a wash as it's a cash payout class. Although for practice only, the A/B riders are a good target market, since they really don't have anywhere else like Motoland to train/practice. But if Motoland could somehow make a few small changes to attract more C/Mini riders, that would be the best of both worlds, since they already have such a strong A/B practice rider base.

Wow!! Great info and I agree. the one time i went to motoland it was a blast but there was no "C" practice....everyone was out at once (it was a bit crazy). If they have a C practice that would be much better for me to be able to get accalmated to the track. Let's hope they can make some changes, hehe. :thumbsup:

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was up all as for were is castle its the step up just past the starting gate and for you all who havent been there in awile they split up classes for practice it sure is awesome track and i am sure things will get better for both world at motoland as rick sure are nice folks and care more than most in MX cya all there at Motoland :thumbsup:

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There would be a big thank you from all the less than fast B riders if we showed up and didn't have to take the "GOAT PATH" and had to land on top of a tabletop instead of rolling big gaps. :thumbsup:

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I don't want to sound like a complete d1ck but..... If it wasnt for the bob's and that new big step up (right after the snake turns a little table then a 90 degree right hander to the step up) I would not go riding there unless it was winter or completely rained out everywhere else. I usually do 4-6 laps all out, then go jump the bobs for the rest of the 15 minutes.

The other step up or castle jump that goes past the start gate is pretty safe, Im sure you can find a way to crash on a step up but they are safe, you just hit then bounce off. Every track can just add an extra hill after a jump or after a table to make the A/B guys happy I don't mind that whatsoever. Even if they just filled in the bob's so everyone can take them. Altho that may be a bad idea also, cuz people are going to get landed on. All i ask for the tracks to do is have things to challenge me. Most tracks are pretty friendly to C/Vet/Beginner riders but they dont add extra content to satisfy the more experienced riders.

I personally didnt like that new set of turns at motoland in the front of the track area its really one lined and too small. Hell some parts of the track are 60ft wide and some are 7ft.

Joliets night track has doubles and some bigger jumps but its completely safe. The whoops are the scariest part of the track, you can miss every single jump on the track and not wreck. I have personally missed everyone of them. They make it challenging but safe. (they are pending a redesign soon also top lower lap times)

I don't really like walnut that much in a technicality sense, The flow of the track is cool, but the jumps were not challenging at all, i hit everything on the first lap, my first ride ever on my break-in of the kx450f and first time ever there.

BR is fun it has all sizes of jumps and all pretty safe. The soil really blows and thats the only thing that holds the place back.

Byron is decent also, i dont like the flow of it now, that uphill is so beat up its horrible, and I think its one of the most dangerous tracks to ride at. The track is bordered with fences and 6-8 inch diameter logs and trees, not to mention really really overwatered. If you hit those your gonna be hurting.

CRFan, if i ever make it out with you guys i can give your son some pointers if you don't mind. It just takes alittle while of watching him ride. Also, I learned to ride my very first bike in sand, i went to hammand every time. I used to fall 15+ times a ride, but it went down every time i went then in a few months i wouldnt fall at all, like once every 3 rides..

If he learns how to ride in sand, he will be alot better of a rider when it comes to dirt, it will take him a bit to get used to work but sand is hard to ride in, its gets your body position, balance, muscles built up, throttlecontrol and also teaches you to stay on the gas longer as you will start swapping as soon as you let off from a hard accell in sand. Im no Bryan White for teaching but i can see alot of stuff, also anyone else should feel free to give me advice if you see something i can work on. (like looking further ahead as its something i dont do but know i should)

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I usually do 4-6 laps all out, then go jump the bobs for the rest of the 15 minutes.

give me advice if you see something i can work on.

Mikey, if you can fit 6 laps into the first 15 mins of a 30 minute session, then my advice would be to go and sign up for a national. :thumbsup:

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I thought it was 45 minute sessions? I can usually do 4 laps do the bobs for awhile then do another lap or 2 b4 the session is over, either way 30mins or 45 mins is plenty of time to get extremely tired before you leave the track!

I'll have to time myself!

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Wow, you guys and gal are getting all in depth on this one :ride:

As a pretty well rounded B rider, I'll throw my 2 cents in.

My ideal track is one like Walnut. Everything about it is easy for anyone that can ride a bike but the better rider will always be faster. Sure the jumps are easy but there's a difference between a beginner hitting the step-up there after the downhill jump wide open and lofting over the top and hitting the downside compared to a fast B rider/A rider coming at it balls out and scrubbing over the top of it.

And the straightaways are easy for everyone but it's pretty evident by where the braking bumps start that there is a big difference in how much speed beginners carry into the turns compared to guys like me who try to flow all the way around it and not be on and off the gas a ton.

Walnut also has the benefit of being built on a hillside so that makes a lot of the jumps have long landings that allow the C guy to jump 20 feet and the A guy to jump 60 feet and both have a nice downhill landing pad.

And although the clay at Buffalo definitely sucks, you have to admit that the layout is pretty cool. For a little while about 5 years ago they made it somewhat technical when they added the new back section and only a few guys could rhythm all the way through them (including me :crazy:), but then they toned it down so everybody had a chance and people really liked it.

Most of the jumps there are table tops and the ones that aren't are stepped table tops like coming out of gravity cavity or the first decent sized jump in the back section. This allows little Jimmy on his 60 to get some air and have a landing and guys like D1PP1N to be able to do heel clickers off the same jump and land on a landing too.

Really, table tops are key on any track. You put a big double in front of me and I'm hesitant to hit it. You put a table top the same size in front of me and I'll probably be jumping it on my 2nd lap and whipping it off of it by lap 7 :ride:

I've said it 100 times, on race day, I would race Buffalo over almost any track out there. When that soil is groomed and watered it is awesome. It ruts up, gets deep and allow you to just hold it open everywhere. Add that to the fun jumps they have, and you've got a little slice of moto heaven in my book :cry:

I guess what I'm saying is, to make a track that everybody likes and has fun on you need places where the beginner rider can get some air and learn how to be a better rider and where the fast rider can ride his hardest and still not be bored by too little of jumps or lack of options to make up time on slower riders.

I for one started riding Buffalo as an average C rider and as I progressed in riding ability figured out ways to ride the same track that I had been riding for years faster. By picking better lines, learning how to jump bigger things or stay closer to the ground, riding with other people and figuring out how to make passes on them without losing momentum. I literally learned how to become faster and make better decisions on the bike and had a ton of fun doing it since the track was fun since day one.

When you go to a track where a kid on a 60 can do every jump on the track or where only 3 guys on their 450s can jump half the jumps, nobody wins :ride:

Braap! :thumbsup:

Matt14.jpg

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I don't want to sound like a complete d1ck but..... If it wasnt for the bob's and that new big step up (right after the snake turns a little table then a 90 degree right hander to the step up) I would not go riding there unless it was winter or completely rained out everywhere else. I usually do 4-6 laps all out, then go jump the bobs for the rest of the 15 minutes.

The other step up or castle jump that goes past the start gate is pretty safe, Im sure you can find a way to crash on a step up but they are safe, you just hit then bounce off. Every track can just add an extra hill after a jump or after a table to make the A/B guys happy I don't mind that whatsoever. Even if they just filled in the bob's so everyone can take them. Altho that may be a bad idea also, cuz people are going to get landed on. All i ask for the tracks to do is have things to challenge me. Most tracks are pretty friendly to C/Vet/Beginner riders but they dont add extra content to satisfy the more experienced riders.

I personally didnt like that new set of turns at motoland in the front of the track area its really one lined and too small. Hell some parts of the track are 60ft wide and some are 7ft.

Joliets night track has doubles and some bigger jumps but its completely safe. The whoops are the scariest part of the track, you can miss every single jump on the track and not wreck. I have personally missed everyone of them. They make it challenging but safe. (they are pending a redesign soon also top lower lap times)

I don't really like walnut that much in a technicality sense, The flow of the track is cool, but the jumps were not challenging at all, i hit everything on the first lap, my first ride ever on my break-in of the kx450f and first time ever there.

BR is fun it has all sizes of jumps and all pretty safe. The soil really blows and thats the only thing that holds the place back.

Byron is decent also, i dont like the flow of it now, that uphill is so beat up its horrible, and I think its one of the most dangerous tracks to ride at. The track is bordered with fences and 6-8 inch diameter logs and trees, not to mention really really overwatered. If you hit those your gonna be hurting.

CRFan, if i ever make it out with you guys i can give your son some pointers if you don't mind. It just takes alittle while of watching him ride. Also, I learned to ride my very first bike in sand, i went to hammand every time. I used to fall 15+ times a ride, but it went down every time i went then in a few months i wouldnt fall at all, like once every 3 rides..

If he learns how to ride in sand, he will be alot better of a rider when it comes to dirt, it will take him a bit to get used to work but sand is hard to ride in, its gets your body position, balance, muscles built up, throttlecontrol and also teaches you to stay on the gas longer as you will start swapping as soon as you let off from a hard accell in sand. Im no Bryan White for teaching but i can see alot of stuff, also anyone else should feel free to give me advice if you see something i can work on. (like looking further ahead as its something i dont do but know i should)

Dippin,

Thanks man....My son and I could both use the advice........I really need advice on how to better charge through a turn. In any case, if we can ever hook up at BR, my son and I would gladly accept any good advice, hehe. My son is getting better but he is "afraid" of sand.....I need to break him of that somehow.

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The way I got used to sand was riding down in Missouri at St. Joe State Park. There are a ton of little sand tracks that are all whoops and big sand berms. We would just ride lap after lap on these little tracks and try to go as fast as we could around the deep, high bermed turns. We would fall quite a bit but since it was sand it didn't hurt. Actually, tracks like that sound like they would be great for both of you since he doesn't like sand and you want to get better at turns.

You could possible just ride the last two turns on the sand track at Buffalo where you hit those two jumps in a row then there's the hard left hand turn with the big sandy berm followed by going down that drop off and the right hand deep sand turn before you go back up the hill and to the entrance of the track. If the track wasn't too busy you could make a loop of that somehow. Maybe towards the end of the day or bright and early in the morning before too many people get down there :thumbsup:

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What the hell is the castle? :thumbsup:

I personally really dig Motoland! I don't find it intimidating since I ride their C practice, and feel that it's very safe. It's a little different when I've went out with A/B on a busy day. As for jumps, there are a few I can clear, but I wish there was more. Of course I bypass the Bob's, and I don't mess with the two other step-ups. But it would be a little more fun to me if there was a few more easy jumps, like the little double in the back before the newer step-up (maybe that's the castle?).

I do, however, have some friends that don't really care for Motoland, mainly because they either don't like sand, the jumps, or the flow (some have a hard time memorizing the long track, for example, which way the track turns on top of a hill).

I think Ron hit it on the head, at a typical race, the minis, C riders, and Plus class riders outnumber the A/B riders almost 3:1. At a practice session, it's probably similar, but depends on the track. For example, Motoland gets lots of fast guys at practice because they have cool stuff for them, like the Bobs, but they don't get much for Minis (50s/60s/80s).

Back to the ratio, I think it makes sense to build a track for your C/Mini riders, and have 2-3 sections/jumps that are more taylored for the A/B guys to show their stuff, like Motoland does with the Bobs (and the goat path for us mortals). Another example, Megacross has a small tabletop, and about 80 feet out is a rolled landing. Almost every A rider "triples" to it, but I've only seen 2-3 B riders do it. For the other 90% of the riders not doing it, it's just a small table to scrub some speed on. Megacross also has two tables in a row that the fastest of A riders jump from one to the other. But the other 95% just hit the two tables. Or one of my favorites is a "triple tabletop" jump, where there is a stepped double landing and also a triple landing. Or I think Joliet does a good job of filling the track with small/medium sized doubles that most 60cc riders can do (even some 50's), some of which have triple landings for the faster bunch. I also agree with Ron that Walnut is a popular practice place because the jumps are primarily medium-sized tables, but the fast flow is still fun for the A/B guys too.

Here's some ratio support - D-17 Race examples for the ratio of Mini/C/Plus riders to A/B riders (gimme a break, I'm an accountant):

Megacross 7-22 - Ratio: 2.7 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 194

50's (31); 65's (35); 85's (41); 125/250C (44); Plus Classes (43); Women (14)

A/B - Total = 71

125/250A (23); 125/250B (29); 14-24 (13); 4-STRK (6)

Byron 7-9 Nuke - Ratio: 2.7 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 188

50's (27); 65's (25); 85's (23); 125C/250C/S-BOY/2-STRK/WMN (43); Plus Classes (59); VINT (11)

A/B - Total = 70

125/250A (11); 125/250B (38); 14-24 (12); OPEN (9)

Byron 7-30 Non-Nuke - Ratio: 8.4 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 76

50's (14); 65's (12); 85's (7); 125/250C (22); S-BOY/VINT (6); Plus Classes (15)

A/B - Total = 9

125/250A (2); 125/250B/14-24 (11)

Walnut 5-21 - Ratio: 2.6 to 1

Mini/C/Plus = 255

50's (38); 65's (26); 85's (57); 125/250C (45); S-BOY/VINT (16); WMN (17); Plus Classes (56)

A/B - Total = 99

125/250A (16); 125/250B (48); 14-24 (31); OPEN (4)

If you look at Motoland's race results (and they cancelled remaining races this year due to low turnout), you'll see they they get a decent amount of A/B riders, because it's a killer track for the fast dudes, but not a good turnout for the minis, C's, and Plus classes. And if you're trying to be profitable, the A riders are a wash as it's a cash payout class. Although for practice only, the A/B riders are a good target market, since they really don't have anywhere else like Motoland to train/practice. But if Motoland could somehow make a few small changes to attract more C/Mini riders, that would be the best of both worlds, since they already have such a strong A/B practice rider base.

I was just wondering if it was just Motoland or if all the area tracks are suffering low rider turnout. It seems to me that you would think that a track that has all the emenities that motoland has that both open rides and race days alike #'s would be higher. I know people can be very polar w/sand. But it astounded me when I heard they were canceling the rest of the races for the season. What gives.....

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Between the sand and what sounds like a long, somewhat intimidating track (I've never been there) my bet is people are shying away from it because other places might be more suited to their riding ability.

Places like Buffalo Range are perfect for your average rider because it's open ride, the track is easy and they have trails too.

And because it's so appealing to everyone, it loses its appeal to faster riders because they don't like dealing with all the slower riders on the track.

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