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Chinese bikes causing insurance to spiral

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I read an interesting article in MCN (motorcycle news) this week where they are basically saying that the cheap Chinese bikes that are flooding the market are having a negative effect on insurance premiums.

It says that people are being tempted to buy the Chinese bikes by the low initial cost of purchase but as the build quality is so low people end up with bikes that need money spent on them to be repaired. What is happening as a result is that people are deliberately having their bikes stolen or completely vandalised so that they can recover their money from buying the bike.

The percentage of bikes in the UK from China is very low compared to all the other brands, yet they have a disproportionately high theft rate and as the Chinese bikes are less desirable to thieves the insurance companies are now charging higher premiums for Chinese bikes in areas that have had large number of thefts. It does give some figures in the article but i can't open another page of Internet Explorer to give a link i am sorry as i am downloading a large file. So if someone wants to check out MCN and provide the link to the article feel free, it is quite interesting reading :thumbsup:

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Wait until people have their car and home owners insurance rates jacked up.

Reporting that $800 motorcycle being stolen might bite them in the end.

I mean, they must be living in a crummy neighborhood.

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Maybe the low price of the Chinabikes is opening the market to lower income houses located in higher crime areas???. Regardless, negative press about china bikes is a good thing.

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Maybe the low price of the Chinabikes is opening the market to lower income houses located in higher crime areas???. Regardless, negative press about china bikes is a good thing.

couldnt agree more, chinacrap

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It sounds to me like people buy these cheap bikes and are soon left with a broken bike and no parts available to fix it. These bikes are sold new without an available source of replacement parts. So, the owner of the broken and irreparable bike parks it in an easy place for thieves to steal it, then he files an insurance claim to recover the cost, while also getting rid of the worthless broken down bike.

Insurance companies normally keep track of what items are high on the stolen list, track trends, and charge increased premiums for high risk items. In the end, these Chinese bike buyers are as quilty as the thieves, and pass on their claim costs to all of their fellow Chinese bike buyers. Yeah, these claimants will most likely see rate hikes that will eventually pay back the insurance company for their claim, but they now get to do it on the invisible "easy repayment plan" via rate hikes. Meanwhile they bump up the costs for the honest owners. In the end, the insurance companies are going to make more than their lost money back.

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It sounds to me like people buy these cheap bikes and are soon left with a broken bike and no parts available to fix it.
Sounds to me like you dont have a clue on the real numbers or data to back up your claim. :ride:

Case-in-point....I have never seen a single used, "broken" or parted out DS china bike posted on EBAY. Lots being sold new though. :ride: Now KTM broken bikes/parts?? THATS another story altogether!

These bikes are sold new without an available source of replacement parts.
check again my boy....you can get a whole motor/carb/electronics for much less than a top-end job on a Jap/Euro bike. Not that you would need one though.....find one *ONLY ONE* posting here on TT about a blown china DS motor. Just one! Now KTM? Thats another story altogether! :thumbsup:
So, the owner of the broken and irreparable bike parks it in an easy place for thieves to steal it, then he files an insurance claim to recover the cost, while also getting rid of the worthless broken down bike.
Lots of broken down china bikes! Funny how they never get "parted-out" by the thieves due to the high demand of "no source of replacement parts"....yea, that makes sense! :cry:
Insurance companies normally keep track of what items are high on the stolen list, track trends, and charge increased premiums for high risk items.
Yep, they certainly do pass on the costs to the high-risk cars and bikes. I suppose that is why my rates are only $75/year progressive (or $79/yr USAA).
In the end, these Chinese bike buyers are as quilty as the thieves
Thats retarded! Chinese bike buyers are all ripping off the insurance companies due to all of them vandalizing their bikes when they break down??
Meanwhile they bump up the costs for the honest owners.
What are your rates? Seems odd that a bike that never gets stolen (KTM) has higher rates than a china bike???

Cheers!

Pullin'

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Here boys is a well thought-out explanation (vs the same old rehash of the "chinashit" argument)

Stolen smallish (125cc-200cc) dual-sport bikes (headlights, etc) are easy to move because:

1) They are light

2) Usually not well protected. like a 10x more expensive Jap/Euro bike.

3) Are easy to move (resell) as non-titled because many many buyers looking for a small beat-around cheap trail bike (no title needed) for on the farm or weekend fun.

4) Often a newby bike. These guys dont have a clue how/where to park

5)They are cheap....less money means more parked in high-risk areas

4) Good resell for parts....china parts can be found, but not as easily as the Japanese bikes (kind of like KTM is).

7) Less law/insurance post-theft recovery involvement. Only $800??...cheaper to take the hit than invest time to find.

8) VIN? No problem! Change it to one of the 22,321,223 combinations that "cyfers-up" to any of the US-registered china importers. It matters not which one. They are all pretty much the same and very anonymous because they only get put in the VIN databases AFTER they are registered!

Why not as many KTM/Jap bikes being stolen? :thumbsup:

1) There are no small-ish DS bikes even offered by these guys! They missed the boat big-time on this market.

2) Owners apreaciate more their value. As they should!......paying literally 10x what you can get a china bike for does offer incentive to buy a good lock and be more selective where one parks! :ride:

3) Harder to move#1.....why would joe-blow weekend dirt rider (no title) want to pay the premium for a KTM/Honda?

4) Harder to move#2.....these bikes are much better tracked/marked than the chinese bikes are. Stolen Jap/Euro bike? Just contact Honda (or whoever) for a rundown on engine serial numbers, etc. which match up to the stolen VIN.

5) Impossible to change the VIN and re-title....these are all tracked in the populated in VIN repository pool by the manufacturer before they even get sold, and if not in the system it is pretty much garrantee's jail time for the thief.

Now, what else will the MC-rags publish to apease their constituants? This one so far is the best!....kind of has a desperation, "last-ditch effort before the big fall", tone to it. :cry:

They missed entirely why the China DS bikes are causing problems for their bottom line (and they are). This is strait from my NE USA sector State Farm representative: These bikes are being represented by the importers as full-fledged road-bikes, using street tires and heavy frame/suspension components normally found on a street bike or larger DS bike. Thus their premiums are rated as such.

However, they are not as stable/safe (more claims....the EXPENSIVE kinds, not the cheap-ass $800 ones) as a true street bike is, as is the case for any lighter dirt bike with sucky dual-sport tires. In fact, some insurance companies started sometime last year denying coverage for all but those bikes with large US-based representation (re-manufacturers, vs the small repackagers). Two that come to mind as being covered regularly are Lifan-America (NOT Lifan) and Yamoto.

Cheers!

Pullin'

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Maybe the low price of the Chinabikes is opening the market to lower income houses located in higher crime areas???. Regardless, negative press about china bikes is a good thing.

Lower income, absolutely... but, higher crime areas?

I happen to own a chinese dirtbike as well as a chinese quad (along with my other high priced Jap stuff). No-one has stolen it yet.

btw... they aren't as crappy as many assume. I have had zero mechanical failures on my chinese stuff.

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Pullin'....... You outdid yourself. Where did you get your information? Or are you just pullin' it out off your ---?

Broken down Chinese bikes and the inavailability of replacement parts is a common thread on motorcycle forums.

As for the insurance claims, etc, I was replying to the original post's claims that it was a problem and offering an explanation. I used to be in the insurance business and have a little understanding of how they establish rates.

Please try to read and comprehend the subject and intended rationale before taking offense.

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Sounds to me like you dont have a clue on the real numbers or data to back up your claim. :applause:

Case-in-point....I have never seen a single used, "broken" or parted out DS china bike posted on EBAY. Lots being sold new though. :applause: Now KTM broken bikes/parts?? THATS another story altogether!check again my boy....you can get a whole motor/carb/electronics for much less than a top-end job on a Jap/Euro bike. Not that you would need one though.....find one *ONLY ONE* posting here on TT about a blown china DS motor. Just one! Now KTM? Thats another story altogether! :ride:

Lots of broken down china bikes! Funny how they never get "parted-out" by the thieves due to the high demand of "no source of replacement parts"....yea, that makes sense! :applause: Yep, they certainly do pass on the costs to the high-risk cars and bikes. I suppose that is why my rates are only $75/year progressive (or $79/yr USAA).

Thats retarded! Chinese bike buyers are all ripping off the insurance companies due to all of them vandalizing their bikes when they break down?? What are your rates? Seems odd that a bike that never gets stolen (KTM) has higher rates than a china bike???

Cheers!

Pullin'

I have a 20 year old XR200 that still runs great. I wonder how many of these Chinese bikes will be running in 5 years.

The problem is there are about 50 Chinese companies putting out motorcycles and we still don't know who is putting out good products and who is putting out crap. The market will sort it's self out.

Your example is great for buying a whole engine, but what if you just need a few parts?

I am amazed at how many KTM's get parted out. I'm equally amazed how many bike models and years can swap parts. :thumbsup: Once most inexpensive motorcycles break a major part, the rest is off to the salvage yards.

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Let me see If I got this straight, Pullin',

I noted from your endless earlier day-by-day posts, about your great new China bike, that you are 6'-2", and had been out of riding for 20 years, but decided to buy an $800 200cc bike and get back into riding. You stated that the bike topped out at 45, but you didn't ride trails, just the road. You said that all of your previous bikes had tachometers, so you had to put one on your new pride and joy. At about the 100 mile mark or so, you decided a few mods were in order, so you threw caution to the wind and put on a new chain and sprocket. Now that bike must be giving you goosebumps as you watched that speedometer climb into the stratosphere and taking you to 55 MPH on the street.

Then you talked about your first adventure of riding off-road, but referred to it as "tearing it up", and something that you had to "tone down" if the bike were to survive. You had gotten crazy on the bike and claimed to have gotten some air, but quickly discovered that the pavement was your forte and key for keeping your great bike from falling apart.

Then a fellow wrote in about his jumping experience on the same bike and the resulting broken frame to help confer your fears.

I don't know, but people that consider dirt riding to be "tearing up a bike", stand 6'-2" and are perfectly content to ride a bike with about 10 HP, then furthermore claim to be motorcycle gurus on this site, are a bit out of touch with the reality of what we all call motocross and off-road riding. We really don't need anyone to tell us how over rated and over priced our "real" dirt bikes are, while you tout about how great your $800 bike is, that has the versatility and strength of a mo-ped.

Oh, yeah........All of you Japanese and European bike riders are elitists in Pullins' view. Those China bikes are where it's at.

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I have a 20 year old XR200 that still runs great. I wonder how many of these Chinese bikes will be running in 5 years.
I'm pushing on two years now......no problems so far.
I'm equally amazed how many bike models and years can swap parts.
Dito here.....notice that the china-bikes pretty much use the same stuff, but an added bonus is that in many cases all you have to do is go to the local Honda dealer if you dont have a direct source.
I am amazed at how many KTM's get parted out.
Makes you wonder, no? :thumbsup::ride:
Once most inexpensive motorcycles break a major part, the rest is off to the salvage yards.
So what you are saying is that you have to spend $8000 on your bike in order for it to be worthwhile to part out? Makes a little sense I suppose......pay $300 for a used top-end, or new for $600.

For the china bikes why even bother paying $30 for a used top-end when it can be had new for $60?

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I'm pushing on two years now

pushing it off the trails and onto the pavement :thumbsup:

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Wow, i didn't mean this to get into some sort of hissing match :applause:

I was only repeating what i read in the MCN i tried to find a link for it on their site but couldn't come up with it, no matter it didn't give any actuall figures or data just said what i already said here but in a more articulate way :applause:

I think hemi orange pretty well got it covered, another theory s that lower income people tend to buy these bikes more than the middle class (not exclusively) before anyone has a fit but on the whole these bikes are going to lower income family. They tend to be more inclined to commit fraud for a few hundred pounds or dollars where ever you are. Where as mr middle class would simply say oh well i tried the bike it was a POS so i will now throw it away and not risk going to prison for such a low amount of money :applause:

To those that own the Chinese bikes and like them good for you as long as you ride thats what counts :thumbsup: To the eleteists on here that like KTM's or Yams or what ever enjoy your ride :ride:

LEGAL MUMBO JUMBO :

The above mentioned statement in this post shall be subject to highly unscientific research that may or may not be true. Hereinafter the statement shall enjoy such privilages as to be challenged by any other party and be called BS save for personal attacks unless it can be proven with a written warranty from a living fossil. :applause::applause:

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cardiffdrz,

Sorry to get off topic. Just say the work and I'll back down off these clowns. It's all in fun. :thumbsup:

Yes, there are some explanations for rate hikes. The misrepresentations (resulting in insurance mis-catagorization.....cheaper rates for China DS bikes) also add costs which so far are being passed onto everyone until the insurance companies can properly adjust the safety/theft-risk factors into the china-bike pricing. It has already happened in some cases.

Cheers

Pullin'

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I'm pushing on two years now...
pushing it off the trails and onto the pavement :thumbsup:
:ride::applause:

(No offense, pullin. I know it was out of context and all, but I just thought that was clever/funny.)

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pushing it off the trails and onto the pavement :thumbsup:
You are most correct TTT! Pushing it to the limit on and off the road.......let me know the next time you need "pullin'" to give your a tow! Doh!:ride::applause::applause:

Score:

Pullin'-->lost count..........TTT(Thumper-Talk-Tard)-->Zippo!

PS: Sell your broken-down CRF 450 (for .50c on the dollar!) yet? :applause::applause::applause:

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=375484

PSS: DCMetro and I go way back! He "earned" the title TTT eons ago....

Cheers! :applause:

Pullin'

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No offense, pullin.
None taken. :ride:
I know it was out of context and all, but I just thought that was clever/funny
Yes, the TTT does has his high moments every now and then. :thumbsup:

Cheers!

Pullin'

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You are most correct TTT! Pushing it to the limit on and off the road.......let me know the next time you need "pullin'" to give your a tow! Doh!:thumbsup::ride::applause:

Score:

Pullin'-->lost count..........TTT(Thumper-Talk-Tard)-->Zippo!

PS: Sell your broken-down CRF 450 (for .50c on the dollar!) yet? :applause::applause::applause:

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=375484

PSS: DCMetro and I go way back! He "earned" the title TTT eons ago....

lol, yeah, I actually got 4300 for the bike about two months ago... I am toying with the idea of buying 1 junk bike like yours just to see if I can destroy it in one day :applause: what can I get a used one for 300$ :applause:

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