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Help with aftermarket exhausts

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I’m thinking of getting an aftermarket exhaust. From all the posts it seems the general consensus is that if you want to really get the maximum benefits then you need to go full system rather than just slip-on. As far as I can work out from various threads this seems to be much to do with the stock header being too restrictive – and maybe that the full systems have wider & improved flow headers. But I’m wondering if there are any significant negative consequences (apart from the noise angle) of going aftermarket – and with less restrictive headers - for example if there’s a corresponding loss of back pressure and what effects this might have on the engine.

One of many systems I was looking at is Staintune full system. It looks like the Staintune header is more or less horizontal, whereas the stock and other headers all seeem to have the much longer U-bend pipe. I presume Suzuki had good reasons for going for the extra cost and effort (and vulnerability to damage) of using the U-bend pipe. So my question is “why” ? What are the advantages of the U-bend pipe … and what does Staintune lose or gain by going the more direct route ? I think I remember reading somewhere that the U-bend was for low-mid end gains – so if this is true does this mean that the Staintune just shifts the dyno chart – with gains at the high-end at the expense of low-mid range power ?

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Welcome to TT

excellent questions.

hope I can make sense

Large diam. headers make more power at high rpm. Short headers make more power at high rpm. Some big tubing, short headers (yosh SS, muzzy, big gun...). I have ridden with the Big Gun only and find it to rev fast and make good peak power when fully uncorked but to be very soft at low rpm. The stock suzi header is very small and long. This makes it produce good power characteristics at low rpm-good for trail riding in slow conditions. The restrictiveness means that it reduces peak output as a compromise. Large diam short headers reduce back pressure under engine braking, reducing engine braking, though you still have more than you want a lot of the time, but make more peak power and rev up much faster.The difference is substantial. The difference is also a good one. The stock ex system is good but once you go with reduced back pressure, you're hooked. The bike revs faster, higher and more eagerly. The peak power is only a bit higher (2 or 3 hp) but the bike is much more ridable. To throw a twist into this, I run a Hindle full system which has a stepped header. It starts small and then expands in a series of steps up to very big. It is also long, about the same length as the stock system. This produces very nice power: strong at the bottom to wheelie over logs and blast through mud, full in the middle and strong up top and gives a good reduction in back pressure. Have never seen a dyno chart for this system but the king of peak power is the yosh Ti. system which is also a long stepped header design, though I wouldn't assume they are the same.

The staintune system has some very good reviews here on tt and looks to be a very well-built system.

so, advantage/disadvantage of lack of U-bend on Staintune: probably sacrifices bottom end power but not a lot ang has big gains in the midrange and top end. The dyno chart is shifted up by larger tubing and steepened by shorter header.

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Regardless of performance, a big advantage of the Staintune is that it never needs repacking. It seems some members are having a hard time repacking their Yosh RS3...

Don't worry about backpressure effects on the engine, it is a 4 stroke after all.

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Very interesting thread so far!

As far as power is concerned then, the biggest advantage of an after market header is larger diameter head pipe, which is why slip-on mufflers are often regarded as a waste of money by many on TT. Is there much difference in header diameter between a stock E head pipe and a Muzzy or Yoshi? :thumbsup: The stock E head pipe seems fairly large?

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Very interesting thread so far!

As far as power is concerned then, the biggest advantage of an after market header is larger diameter head pipe, which is why slip-on mufflers are often regarded as a waste of money by many on TT. Is there much difference in header diameter between a stock E head pipe and a Muzzy or Yoshi? :thumbsup: The stock E head pipe seems fairly large?

my muzzy headpipe has a substantially larger headpipe diameter than the stock E model headpipe. can't give any good numbers right now, but i'll guess aprrox. 1/8" larger.

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Very interesting thread so far!

As far as power is concerned then, the biggest advantage of an after market header is larger diameter head pipe, which is why slip-on mufflers are often regarded as a waste of money by many on TT. Is there much difference in header diameter between a stock E head pipe and a Muzzy or Yoshi? :thumbsup: The stock E head pipe seems fairly large?

Seach and you will find this

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Thanks for the link 10guy. You did a great job with all the Muzzy information and the nice pics of the install. I now really see the difference in the size of the stock vs. Muzzy!

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Welcome to TT

excellent questions.

hope I can make sense

Large diam. headers make more power at high rpm. Short headers make more power at high rpm. Some big tubing, short headers (yosh SS, muzzy, big gun...). I have ridden with the Big Gun only and find it to rev fast and make good peak power when fully uncorked but to be very soft at low rpm. The stock suzi header is very small and long. This makes it produce good power characteristics at low rpm-good for trail riding in slow conditions. The restrictiveness means that it reduces peak output as a compromise. Large diam short headers reduce back pressure under engine braking, reducing engine braking, though you still have more than you want a lot of the time, but make more peak power and rev up much faster.The difference is substantial. The difference is also a good one. The stock ex system is good but once you go with reduced back pressure, you're hooked. The bike revs faster, higher and more eagerly. The peak power is only a bit higher (2 or 3 hp) but the bike is much more ridable. To throw a twist into this, I run a Hindle full system which has a stepped header. It starts small and then expands in a series of steps up to very big. It is also long, about the same length as the stock system. This produces very nice power: strong at the bottom to wheelie over logs and blast through mud, full in the middle and strong up top and gives a good reduction in back pressure. Have never seen a dyno chart for this system but the king of peak power is the yosh Ti. system which is also a long stepped header design, though I wouldn't assume they are the same.

The staintune system has some very good reviews here on tt and looks to be a very well-built system.

so, advantage/disadvantage of lack of U-bend on Staintune: probably sacrifices bottom end power but not a lot ang has big gains in the midrange and top end. The dyno chart is shifted up by larger tubing and steepened by shorter header.

wow! very educational :thumbsup: good post!

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Large diam. headers make more power at high rpm. Short headers make more power at high rpm.

... The stock suzi header is very small and long. This makes it produce good power characteristics at low rpm-good for trail riding in slow conditions.

..

so, advantage/disadvantage of lack of U-bend on Staintune: probably sacrifices bottom end power but not a lot ang has big gains in the midrange and top end. The dyno chart is shifted up by larger tubing and steepened by shorter header.

Sorry not to reply sooner - but thanks for a good understandable explanation. Cheers Robb. You've almost sold me on your hindle sytem with its stepped header (hadn't considered it before). How noisey is it ?

I'm still leaning towards the Staintune - in part 'cos it needs no repacking - and where I am getting any bike parts is a real hassle. I'm not racing and don't get to spend nearly as much time off road as I'd like - but I reckon it's the mid range I'd want most gains - followed by low end and then top.

So following what you say about shorter headers, I might lose a bit of low-end with the Staintune. But this makes me wonder about my original point - why if it makes little differene would Suzuki (and others) go to the extra effort involved in produced the longer U-bend - which seems to me to invite damage - rather then put in a straight horizontal (and may be stepped) header as stock ?

Again, to show my ignorance, Staintune say that you don't need to rejet. I don't quite see how you can get performance gains unless they're sacrificing some part of the power curve to benefit another part (so losing low-end to boost high-end). So I'm just wondering if there is more of a loss at low-end than your suggesting. I'll do another post to see what Staintune owners think.

Anyway, thanks - I'm new to all this and just stumbling around in the dark a bit - but your post has certainly helped. :thumbsup:

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sorry to take so long, been away.

I dont know why suzuki and others spend the extra money installing a long header other than to say that the stock system really does work very well, so do the other long-head systems. so do the short head systems but they have noticably different power-they seem to like to rev more from mid-revs up but you have to rev them more to climb steep banks and cross sticky mud-holes which the long head pipe bikes will torque through.

Re-packing: I helped one of my students do it to his quad last year, first time for me. I dont intend to repack. I have a quiet insert for my hindle, and when it gets too loud, I will install that-dont expect to do so for several years.

Not trying to sell you anything or sersuade you. I dont do labels and support the yosh, muzzy, staintune all. they are all good. I have not ridden any other system except the big gun and didnt like it-has a small volume can like the yosh that has a high, sharp tone. I like deeper sounds (played tenor sax and trombone for years, prefer my concert sized classical guitar over all others except dreadnoughts because of the deep, resonant sound so maybe it has something to do with my ear's architecture)

Dont believe that staintune would recommend their system and not jetting if they have all the info. If you're flowing more air, you need more fuel. And if you're making more power, other things being equal, you're flowing more air. A slip-on will not need rejetting (but would benefit from it a bit). But the S model is so chocked up in terms of airflow and so lean in terms of jetting that any change you make that makes power will need jetting.

Saw your staintune owners thread, havent read it yet, will do so after this post.

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What are people finding is the best system to give you power improvement in the low end? The topic of exhaust systems seems to be very complicated with many different options.

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Not really all that complicated. The best bottom end improvement will come from the muzzy or yosh stainless. The best top end is from the yosh ti at the expense of durability.

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