Is it the Bike or the Rider?

[Colorado]

I wonder if theres a big-bore kit available for the klx250 that would make up for the lost horsepower at your altitude?

Oh yeah, it consists of the top end from the off-road KLX300R. I've read that in Australia, most dealers sell the KLX250S with the 300 kit. There is a guy whose screen name is "Nobrakes" who posts here on TT and on the KLX250 forum that has done every mod imaginable (short of changing the crank) to goose up his KLX250. Pipe, airbox, filter, carb, 300 kit, etcetera. Last I read he hadn't dyno'd it but he thinks the hp has increasd from 18 to about 26 or 28.

Which gets you into a whole new discussion. Do you buy a cheap bike and spend a ton to make it into what you want? Or do you spend the extra dough and buy a bike that already has most of what you want?

Seems to me the best quality is the best value in the long run.

[mikem]

Colorado:

Sounds like you are leaning more towards the 400/450 category. If that is the case, here are my thoughts:

I would lean to the Honda CRFX, IF if could get a tag for it. Most Dependeble, low maintenance -smooth power for this class.

Or. The KTM - probably easiest to ride. Very smooth. A little shorter seat height when sitting on it. In Ga. you can go get a tag right out of the box.

More maintenance than the Honda.

DRZ - good smooth power, but too tall and too heavy.

Yamaha - still a power beast.

[Thinc2]

(That's why Thinc2 can't do a decent wheelie - or so he says.)

?

There are many reasons I can't wheelie - thin air isn't one of them

[Beezerboy]

Put a 13 tooth countershaft sprocket on your KLR - $20. Or better yet, a 12. You can even put it on when the going gets rough & switch back to the 15 when you hit the pave. Call Fred at Arrowhead in Moab

[JKidd]

Larry - don't know if you've made a purchase of a smaller (and more enjoyable, in my opinion) bike as of yet. Two more to consider - Honda CRF230 - Gas Gas Pampera. Won't do the details, but I have one of each if you have any ??'s.

[Colorado]

Larry - don't know if you've made a purchase of a smaller (and more enjoyable, in my opinion) bike as of yet. Two more to consider - Honda CRF230 - Gas Gas Pampera. Won't do the details, but I have one of each if you have any ??'s.

JKidd, thanks for the offer.

And thanks for bringing this back up to the top again. Turns out I bought the new bike today - a DRZ400e, as suggested by MikeM.

The dealer, 2 miles away, had one they'd prepped for sale with bar risers, ProTaper bars and LED tail/brake light and switch. Then the buyer backed out. So I got that stuff free. I also got a generous discount on hand guards and skid plate and I ordered the rest through TT. Colorado is so easy that I got the bike tagged today too.

This bike weighs the same as, but feels lighter than, my XR400. It has about the same power but continues to rev when I'd be shifting the XR. I love it!

So, I'm in break-in mode now but will be taking an off-road clinic just outside of Buena Vista at the end of the month. Then I'll see if the "small & light bike makes you a better rider" theory works.

[Colorado]

Bringing this back up as riding season has nearly arrived in Colorado.

I bought a DRZ-E last October and, a few days later, broke my knee trail riding. I was on my KLR650 at the time. I was too embarrassed to post about it but the knee has "pretty well" healed and I'm looking into riding trails again.

My riding buddy and I had a talk about this last night. Neither of us can afford any more injuries. (If I break anything else my wife's gonna kill me, then divorce me). Before we go out and ride, let me ask this:

1. Has anyone followed the thoughts on this thread and gotten a smallish bike for this purpose? MikeM?

2. What insights has the experience given you on the "bike or rider" issue?

Thanks, Larry

[desert rat 2]

Colorado,

I just read the entire thread, and I've got to say that while everyone keeps talking about the perfect bike, in my experience it is really mostly about the rider. I do a mix of riding, half exploring-adventure and half high speed desert with deep sand and huge whoops. I tend to ride a bit conservatively, but have noticed that with each additional year of experience my speed and technical ability increases. At this point I am riding nearly as fast as the Expert desert racers, but with the insight and age to turn it down a notch or two when I approach something that looks to me like it might be a bit more dangerous.

My only "crashes" are low speed tipovers in highly technical terrain, and other than the occasional bent lever I have not had any significant damage.

When I got back into riding in '99 I purchased the DRZ400S. I rode it for two years, but never could get it to handle properly. The power was great, but the bike was a tank. I switched in '02 to an XR400R, bought new from the dealer and installed Scotts Steering Stabilizer and Pumper Carb to cure off-idle bog. I have been happy with this bike ever since. Last year I finally had the suspension done by XR's only and this was also a huge improvement.

The guys I ride with all ride more modern 250's, 450's and 525's, and while I envy their HP and top speed, I really have no problem keeping up except in the really tight technical stuff where the XR shows it's weight. In fact, in the high speed desert stuff, especially whoops, I often am fastest, even with the lack of HP. This is really due to proper suspension setup and practice, practice, practice.

Where I always lead is in the nasty, rocky hillclimbs that are often encountered when exploring old mining areas and such. In these areas the low RPM torque of the XR is far superior to the higher revving HP of the more modern bikes.

That said, I know that I could go much faster in most places on a more modern bike, but do I need to go faster? Yes and no. Because I do a lot of fast desert riding, it would be really nice. At the same time it would make it more difficult to do the adventure-exploring rides that I love so much.

The moral of the story: Until you have found the limit of whatever you are riding, it's all rider and not much bike. When you find the limits of the machine, then it becomes bike. Most people ride a few weekends a year and never get to the point where they find the limits of their bike. I ride at least once a week and it has taken me eight years to really find the limit of the bike. And now I know the limit, I'm not really sure that I need to go beyond it.

With proper modifications to a tried and true trail bike, you should be able to go just about anywhere with a huge smile on your face and very little worry about reliability. Invest in suspension, carb, stabilizer, and good bars and grips and you can turn almost any bike into a capable bike.

Of course, this is in relation to anything 525 or smaller. The 650 is an entirely different animal.

[fashizzle]

Hey Colorado, I ride a DRZ400e on probably ride on some of the same trails as you. I struggled with the same questions as you when searching for a bike and I still sturggle on whether I should upgrade to a more powerful/lighter bike like CRF450x or wr450f. Theres a couple things that keeps me from doing it is one, every time I get on my bike and ride it on the trails I have an absolute blast. Two, It's paid for, and three I rode last year with a guy I met at Rampart who rides a bone stock DRZ400S except for gearing and jetting and he was hitting gnarly hill climbs and sections of trails that were literally making my stomach turn. So I know I am no were near approaching the limits of my E model.

Your gonna have a really good time this Summer riding your E model. Let me know when your going riding next as I live in Castle Rock and always looking for people to ride with. ?

[defsailor]

MY first and only bike for 5'10'' 180# is an ATK 605. button start,reliable,plated, and goes ANYWHERE.. maybe I dont know any better but this thing is so forgiving at speed and crawls up anything that I can't imagine anything else. My girlfriends xt225 is pretty easy to ride but doesn't

have the thrill factor of all that POWER. Just my 2 cents worth, DR

[Colorado]

Guys, I hear what you're saying. And given my limited trail riding experience compared to yours, I have no right to doubt you.

But I did ride way better, and with less effort, on the 250 Super Sherpa than I did on my KLR650. Since I was the same guy, with the same lame skills, I have to think it was the bike. Is there any other explanation?

(Well, there's one other explanation for my skepticism, of course. Deep down I don't want to believe it's the rider. That way I don't have to do anything except be lazy and spend a little more dough.)

[drzmike1]

I started riding dirt/dual sport in '00 after 10 years of street. It was a ride on an XT225 that got me hooked. I then bought a '86 XL600R. Great bike, about the same weight as a DRZ-S, but kick start only. Got tired of kicking, so bought a '02 DR-Z400S. Really liked it, but found I was riding mostly off-road and wanted to try something lighter. Enter my '06 Husky TE250:thumbsup: This thing is like magic, mostly due to the light weight. The suspension is top notch and the engine is sweet. It has lots more grunt than I expected from a 250. I recently added a Scotts steering damper (mainly because I have a bad shoulder, not that the bike needs it) and it's even easier to ride. Only down sides to the TE250 are it's tall and the tranny is 6-speed but very close ratio. If I have to do pavement I try to keep it to 50 mph just to save wear on the engine. I've had it to 71 mph but the motor is screamin. Rev limit is 12,500 rpm, but I don't think it would last long there.

I also recently got a KLR650 and it feels like my ST1100 compared to the Husky. I can't imagine taking the KLR the places I take the Husky.

[Sonoran_KLXRider]

The KLR650 is a beast! I'm 6' - 3" and 200 lbs and I found the 650 too much for me off road! I went with a KLX250S and love the power and agility both on and off road. Just making a few simple free mods to the exhaust, airbox and carb where enough to make it rip. I also found two different bags that fit the rear rack perfect - enough two hold two 33oz. MSR fuel bottles, water, snacks, etc. One is made by Lowe and the other by Ortlieb.

[SherpaHead]

Those Super Sherpas are great little bikes. I liked the first one so much, I had

to buy a spare.... My wr250f is faster in the woods, but there is nowhere it

can go that the sherpa cant go also. The sherpa also has a 6th gear, and is

comfy enough that I have done 300 mile street rides on it. It will cruise 65+ all

day long. I wouldnt want to try that on the wr....

[LoopyJones82]

go for the TT-R250. it isn't underpowered and has a very controllable powerband, and it also creates positive traction and all that good stuff ? . my dad owns the TT-R250, i own a YZ250F. we can go the same places on the crazy trails we ride on. also, the seat height is about 35 but the super-soft suspension cushions EVERY little bump and lowers the seat height a tiny bit... the bike weighs about 250 and is kinda top heavy but if you can get over the weight and center of gravity, its a solid bike and we've never had any problems with it.

[GaThumper]

Well I was surfing the DS forum tonight, spend most of my time at KTMTalk and the DR Forum here, and Maximum Suzuki, but I caught this thread and figured I'd toss in my .02 for you.

To make a long story short, I decided to get back into dirt riding after 25 years away, discovered dual sporting and have been on a mission to find the perfect DS bike. Well I believe I can say that "for me" they don't make it yet.

I did lot's of research and I wanted a lot. Figured I would ride a few enduros and hare scrambles here in the southeast, some dual sport rides, and trails, forest service roads, orv areas, and pavement to connect them together. I've now bought 4 bikes in six months and still have not found one bike that will meet ALL of these requirements.

I'm now waiting on the first manufacturer to deliver a 250 pound bike with great suspension, 40+ horsepower, six speed transmission, cush hub, and DOT legal. It needs to have a dependable motor with more than 1 quart of oil and not be high maintenance. (I'd prefer air cooling and screw type valves, but don't expect to get them!)

Meanwhile...

The first bike I bought was a 2005 DRZ 400s and I was not happy with it on the road or in the woods. Discovered TT and after lot's of reading I realized I could spend another $1000 or so and have a decent 300 pound dual sport that would be OK in the woods and OK on the road. Sold the DRZ before I started throwing money at it, although many have done that and been very satisfied.

Now to the dark side... I have always had Japanese bikes. Until recently I thought KTMs had the sprocket and the kick starter on the wrong side and parts were twice the price of a Japanese bike. But they seem to dominate the enduros here so I'm looking at them and I thought I could get a tag on a used one so I'm thinking I have found my do-it-all dual sport. Learned enought to be dangerous and bought a 2005 KTM 450exc. Let me first say I loved the bike! The power was near perfect to me. The six speed was low enough for the woods and tall enough for the roads. The weight was great. The engine was basically very dependable, requiring just a bit more maintenance, and there was tons of aftermarket support.

Enter the DMV. After hearing that KTM did not say "off road use only" on the MSO and that many were tagged in my state with no problems I contacted the DMV and was told if I bought a used bike with an out of state title it would be no problem to get the bike titled and tagged here. I arrived at the tag office with my SC title in hand, proof of insurance, and checkbook on the counter to hear the nice lady say "there is a problem with the VIN" and you will need to get a vin inspection. Handed me the DMV form that had a section for the local leo to check the headstock for the NHSTC sticker that KTM did NOT have prior to 2007. Looking like they have closed another loophole. I also came to the conclusion that I would not want to put 1000s of miles on the KTM. It was really a ready to race bike and although you can do it, I didn't feel it was the best decision for me. Time to sell the KTM and at this point I've decided you can't have one bike that will race a tight, hilly, muddy east coast enduro one week and then run 2 125 mile dual sport days the next week. Time to buy two bikes, one a dedicated dirt bike and another a 50/50 dual sport.

Sold the KTM, bought a Suzuki DR650, and set it up with DOT knobbies, skid plate, Yosh slip-on pipe, K&N filter, re-jetted and ready to rock. And I will say that for 50/50 riding I loved the DR650. And I liked it better than the DRZ hands down. It was very capable on the street, and would go anywhere the DRZ would. The weight was 25 pounds more, but when you are talking 300-325 it didn't seem to be much difference to me. Neither the DRZ or the DR "in my opinion" need to be jumping any triples, (or doubles). After owning the KTM the DR and DRZ are a far cry away as a dirt bike. But the extra weight of the DR made me work harder, the power was more than necessary, and it was not as much fun as the trails became rougher.

Meanwhile my riding buddy bought a KLR250 and we both felt it was way under powered. Decent little DS, but a compromise on both the street and trail. He liked my DR650, but didn't want the extra weight or the extra power. He was looking for what he considered the perfect bike "for him". 350cc, electric start, 250 pounds, six speed, air cooled, bullet proof design, simple valve adjustments, anybody want to guess what I came up with?

Enter the DR650's little bro... I came to realize that the bike he was looking for was out of production, but it was made recent enough that good examples were available, parts were available, it had been in production long enough to have a good following and probably be around for a while yet.

The Suzuki DR350SE. Made from about '90-'99 the electric start versions of the later years satisfied most all of his requirements. We studied the bike a bit, found a nice '97 for sale nearby and picked it up for him a few months ago. I was so impressed with his that I looked around and found a clean low mileage '99 for myself and bought it about 2 months ago. I kind of hate to let the proverbial cat out of the bag, but here you go, Suzuki made a near perfect dual sport bike for 10 years and you can still find nice low mileage examples for under $2500. '98 and '99 SE models have the magic button and the better suspension like the dirt models. 285 pounds stock, slightly lower than most newer designs so it fits many of us that are not 6' tall better, has 30 horsepower that pulls strong low in the RPM range, and a six speed transmission. Correctly sprung for your weight and re-valved and it will handle most anything you will want to throw at it. It's not an MX bike and not an all out enduro or cross country race bike, but it is very capable off road and has decent manners on the street as well. Until someone makes my "perfect" dual sport bike, I'll be happy to ride the DR350 anywhere and anytime.

Now I did take the final step in my 2 bike solution and bought a 2002 KTM 250 4-stroke that has the factory upgrade 350cc kit installed. It's in mint condition and has near the power of the 450 and a shorter stroke, lighter crankshaft and is a blast in the woods. Total cost of both bikes was less than the cost of a DRZ 400, DR 650, or the newer KTM.

That's my .02 and I may be wrong...

[creeky]

Getting back to the original question, "is it the bike or the rider", here's my favorite example. A riding buddy that rides a '98 XR280 with W.E.R. suspension modifications routinely surprises and embarasses other riders on more expensive and later model equipment with his ability to traverse most any kind of terrain just as well as they do and sometimes better. That says it all for me.

[Chuckster]

I had one, sold it for a drz400s. Have ridden the piss out of both the dr350 and drz400. The 350 was I think a better woods/rocky mountain kinda bike but lacking in desert.. plus it would get really hot when I had the kids along and we were pony riding it...them on the xr70's. It's just as heavy as the drz but the torque is lower. If you went that rout, why not a xr400 with a plate??

I went big myself. Bought a TE610 which feels the same weight wise as the drz400s but more torque and much better street manners. The difference is about 10 lbs realistically.

Someday I'd like to get me a light dual sport too..

[GaThumper]

You can't plate any kind of dirt bike in Georgia. Also I don't believe the XR400 has a magic button?

As for the DRZ400, after going around these four bikes, I believe the DRZ would work just as well, but I like the simpler design of the DR with screw adjust valves and no radiator to damage. Also I felt like the stock DRZ 400s felt heavier in the tight woods than the DR 350 even though it's only 15 pounds lighter. Once I decided to get a dedicated dirt bike and a dedicated dual sport I was able to get both for the same cost as the late model used DRZ so it made sense for me. Everyone is different and the DRZ works well for many people.

And after thinking about the original post "Is it the bike or is it the rider" I'd say both or either... A great rider can certainly ride an inferior machine and leave a lesser rider on a better machine in his dust. With equal riders, a better machine will make one rider the winner. For me, I can ride better on a better machine, so I want the best I can get/afford/justify. The KTM 450 made easy work of hills and terrain that was difficult on other bikes. My buddy, who is an equal if not better rider was riding a Honda XR250 at the time and he had to work hard to do things that the KTM just breezed through. You do get what you pay for!

Having said that, at 50 years old, I'm having a blast on the DR350. We consider ourselves explorers, adventurers, etc. and are in it for the ride and the scenery. But, when it comes time to run an enduro, you can bet I'll be on the KTM, not the DR.