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Stepping the rear out! SM Style!

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Ok so i want to be able to this!

suzuki_drz400sm_344_5.jpg

I've heard that the way to do it is to knock it down 2 gears while @ high revs and heavy on the front brake!

I wana know if any1 can actaully do this on demand? and how the hell it is done so flawlessly?

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Ye, i want to know to because usually when ever i try and bang it down a couple gears my back starts bucking like a wild bronco. It doesn't just smoothly go into a slide.

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Practice makes perfect.

You didnt answer my question tho?

is that how its done?

:thumbsup::ride:

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You didnt answer my question tho?

is that how its done?

:thumbsup::ride:

grab the front brake as hard as you can.

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clutch clutch clutch.

Approach corner with plenty of speed. It is actually easier faster. As smoothly as possible. pull clutch, bang 2 gears, sit forward and use a ton of front brake, when you get to this point start slipping the clutch and hold it there without using any throttle. This should get the rear sliding, you can help it with a light tap on the rear brake, but the idea is to keep the rear turning without locking up. Without a slipper it is all about learning how to slip the clutch until the corner apex and start applying throttle to drive out.

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Look at the guy's foot. I'd say it on the rear brake. But I agree that you don't want much brake. Mostly unload with the front and do the gear change deal with just a drag of rear brake.

As with dirt track racing you're not wanting to actually lock the wheel, just get it to slip a bit.

In my feeble first efforts I'm finding that it really softens the blow to keep your weight forward. Lean back for slowing down(to avoid stoppies) then roll your body well forward for the easing out of the clutch for the slide. With your weight forward it tends to soften the rehookup but you still need to be ready with some quick bar movement or it'll stand you up snappy like. At least this is a chicken s#*^ newbies findings...... as always YMMVbatteriesnotincludedsomeassemblyrequiredcontenstarenotexactlyasperpackage.

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Shamelessly stoled from the Husaberg site written by Simon Supermoto instructor best write up I have seen

I've been an instructor for the Supermoto School here in the UK and this is how we teach it based upon how the top European SM riders - those who really know how to do it!

First, lets tackle backing it in, then we'll look at drifting....

1. bike setup - just keep it the same as normal and what you're used to - changing settings will make the bike feel different and therefore how will you know how it feels to start sliding? Making changes adds to the confusion and as with engine development - do one thing at a time!

2. Understand the process first and what we're trying to achieve:

a) It's not just to look good - it's about getting the bike into a better position to get the rider through and out of the corner as fast as possible.

Backing it in is therefore about getting the bike pointing further in the direction you want the bike to go so that you're then able to get on the throttle harder and earlier, and spending less time leaning too far over to get on the throttle properly - if you know what I mean.

This should also answer the question as to when to back it in - only when it's the best thing to do - in other corners, knee down superbike style may be the best and fastest way round - use your judgment - it depends on the corner.

:thumbsup: It's about preparing for getting out of the corner fastest therefore it is about being set up for getting straight on the gas when you hit the apex or point at which you want to fire out of the corner (whichever is most appropriate).

This should answer your question about what and how many gears you need to knock it down as you back it in - if it is a first gear corner, you knock the gearbox down to first, if it is second, you knock it down to second. And that means even if you're in sixth gear and you approach the corner. It is not as scary as it sounds and we'll build up to that....

c) You never lock the rear wheel - but you do break traction (obviously).

To do this with good control and stability you will use a mixture of the gearbox, clutch and rear brake. Notice that I don't mention the front - that is because as per normal you'll most probably be braking as hard as you can with the front brake - so nothing has changed there then

3. Breaking the traction - which is what we need to do first. This is done with the gearbox - dropping down the required number of gears and the literally dumping the clutch - after you have started leaning the bike over. As the traction breaks, the rear wheel will slight out sideways.

The best way to practice this is in a car park or somewhere similar where you can simply go straight back and forwards, making sharp turns at each end round a cone or something. For the purpose of practice select the place to do it so that you can get up to third gear, going down to first. As you ride towards your corner, make sure you're sat well forwards on your seat and if possible your body position should at the very least be held completely in line with the bike as you leaning but ideally should always be leaning slightly further to the inside even with your inside bum cheek slightly off the seat - do not whatever you do try ti sit on the bike like they do in MX (you'll find out why later). The following steps happen in rather quick succession:

1. You start breaking for the corner with your front brake to transfer weight to the front (that's also one of the reasons you need to sit forwards on the bike).

2. As you begin to brake you will obviously pull in the clutch and now drop down two gears.

2. Begin leaning yourself and bike into the corner - just do this gradually for now

3. Dump the clutch - just let it out suddenly.

You will find out if you have the right amount of lean angle into the corner when the rear begins to break away sideways. To begin with an inch feels like a mile, that is why you gradually increase lean angle. When you get used to it you'll happily do it whatever lean angle you're at.

What you will find when practicing this is that the rear will slide out and very quickly come back into line before the apex - we resolve this with the rear brake.Get used to this breaking away feeling first using only the gearbox and clutch.

The reason the rear brake is used is to maintain a constant but slow rotation of the rear wheel. What you'll have noticed is that if you just use your clutch, the engine revs quickly increase as friction between tyre and tarmac pull the wheel round quicker - that is why you experience the rear coming into line quite quickly. The rear brake is used to add more friction so that engine revs don't rise and the rear wheel maintains its slower rotation. That is all the rear brake is used for! So it is done gently!

So lets add this to the above process:

1. Set yourself up on bike, begin breaking with the front and add a little rear brake

2. Drop down through the gears

3. Lean in

4. Dump clutch

You will notice whether you're getting the rear brake pressure right by how well the bike maintains its slide to the apex. When you practice this you will also know why we only add the rear brake after you've learnt how to initiate the slide.

What you may also notice when doing these exercises is that the rear wheel may begin hop - this is rectified by using the clutch and just pulling it in very slightly.

As you practice the above you will also notice that the degree to which you're sliding varies and that you can vary it yourself, depending on the corner - this is done using the clutch and very slight adjustments on the clutch lever as your backing it in to the corner - this bit is the bit that really requires the practice and skill and marks the difference between those who can slide and those who can sliiiiiiide.!

You may notice that none of this means you have to be absolutely on it or riding aggressively to slide - it's actually a very gentle technique when you get to know it.

That should be enough to get you started........

As for the drifting bit, I think the first thing you need to do is get used to doing it on your sm bike with slicks on loose gravel or something similar and as above doing this between a couple of cones so that you're going round a couple of really tight turns getting on the power so that the bike spins round the corner, if necessary with your inside foot on the ground to give support. The really important thing to remember is that as the bike begins to slide you lean your body to the inside of the bike and also ever so slightly bringing the bike more upright (look at dirttrackers). Once you've got comfortable with this on the loose stuff, then get onto tarmac and begin with learning how to do donuts, first with the bike really leaning over stood still and with one leg on the ground. Then get used to breaking traction and pivoting yourself on you leg round in circles as the rear burns away (it is also quite good to start this on loose stuff to get used to the feel).

One point about drifting and that is really difficult for some riders to get their heads around is that you do not, whatever you do, chop the throttle! If a drift starts going too far you regulate it by holding the throttle and/or by pushing the bike more upright.

As an interesting point Valentino Rossi practices his drifting in a quarry with a bike with an MX front tyre and road rear tyre!

This should also be enough to get you started.

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Please Please, don't kill the guy

Rule #1, never tries to back it in. The better the rider you get - the faster you go, it starts to happen naturally. Every time I see a guy trying to force his rear around I see Red lights, a guy on the ground holding his shoulder and a black skid mark because he locked up the rear wheel, started to skid, panic when through his brain - he let off the brake and he got pitched.

Long before you learn to back it in you need to learn to use the clutch. The clutch is the key - if you don't have a slipper. The rear brake is a tool to help control the rear wheel, not lock it up or use it as a brake. The front brake is also important - don't stab it - squeeze it.

First learn to go into a corner, tap down two gears, and at the same time squeeze the front brake, apply a little rear brake and feed the clutch until you feel the clutch start to grab. If the rear starts to hop, you went to far. If you don't feel the bike start to lurch forward - let out a little more brake. It's like pleasing a woman; there is a fine line between too much and too little. But when you find the right spot it's all goooood.

Once you learn the clutch, downshift, brake and you feel the rear start to skid or float under you - start going into the corners a little harder and start leaning on the front brake a little more.

Don't force it - it will come or it was not meant to be and stick with straight line braking to be safe. Until you master it - it's slower to try to back it in.

Never try to back it in on the street either - you are asking for trouble. Full gear, pads, and race track only. It just isn't safe to attempt on the street.

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Now this is what i love about thumpertalk,

Tellings how it should be!

once my bike is back up and running i WILL be trying this!

Kinda promised my mates on their 600 Nakeds that i'll be wheeling and sliding all over!

Got the wheelie, now just the slides :applause:

:thumbsup::ride::applause:

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Ye, i want to know to because usually when ever i try and bang it down a couple gears my back starts bucking like a wild bronco. It doesn't just smoothly go into a slide.

You're almost there- just don't let the clutch out all the way. Maybe around 3/4s of the way will get it sliding without hopping. If it hops, bring the clutch lever in a hair.

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Shamelessly stoled from the Husaberg site written by Simon Supermoto instructor best write up I have seen

I've been an instructor for the Supermoto School here in the UK and this is how we teach it based upon how the top European SM riders - those who really know how to do it!

First, lets tackle backing it in, then we'll look at drifting....

1. bike setup - just keep it the same as normal and what you're used to - changing settings will make the bike feel different and therefore how will you know how it feels to start sliding? Making changes adds to the confusion and as with engine development - do one thing at a time!

2. Understand the process first and what we're trying to achieve:

a) It's not just to look good - it's about getting the bike into a better position to get the rider through and out of the corner as fast as possible.

Backing it in is therefore about getting the bike pointing further in the direction you want the bike to go so that you're then able to get on the throttle harder and earlier, and spending less time leaning too far over to get on the throttle properly - if you know what I mean.

This should also answer the question as to when to back it in - only when it's the best thing to do - in other corners, knee down superbike style may be the best and fastest way round - use your judgment - it depends on the corner.

:applause: It's about preparing for getting out of the corner fastest therefore it is about being set up for getting straight on the gas when you hit the apex or point at which you want to fire out of the corner (whichever is most appropriate).

This should answer your question about what and how many gears you need to knock it down as you back it in - if it is a first gear corner, you knock the gearbox down to first, if it is second, you knock it down to second. And that means even if you're in sixth gear and you approach the corner. It is not as scary as it sounds and we'll build up to that....

c) You never lock the rear wheel - but you do break traction (obviously).

To do this with good control and stability you will use a mixture of the gearbox, clutch and rear brake. Notice that I don't mention the front - that is because as per normal you'll most probably be braking as hard as you can with the front brake - so nothing has changed there then

3. Breaking the traction - which is what we need to do first. This is done with the gearbox - dropping down the required number of gears and the literally dumping the clutch - after you have started leaning the bike over. As the traction breaks, the rear wheel will slight out sideways.

The best way to practice this is in a car park or somewhere similar where you can simply go straight back and forwards, making sharp turns at each end round a cone or something. For the purpose of practice select the place to do it so that you can get up to third gear, going down to first. As you ride towards your corner, make sure you're sat well forwards on your seat and if possible your body position should at the very least be held completely in line with the bike as you leaning but ideally should always be leaning slightly further to the inside even with your inside bum cheek slightly off the seat - do not whatever you do try ti sit on the bike like they do in MX (you'll find out why later). The following steps happen in rather quick succession:

1. You start breaking for the corner with your front brake to transfer weight to the front (that's also one of the reasons you need to sit forwards on the bike).

2. As you begin to brake you will obviously pull in the clutch and now drop down two gears.

2. Begin leaning yourself and bike into the corner - just do this gradually for now

3. Dump the clutch - just let it out suddenly.

You will find out if you have the right amount of lean angle into the corner when the rear begins to break away sideways. To begin with an inch feels like a mile, that is why you gradually increase lean angle. When you get used to it you'll happily do it whatever lean angle you're at.

What you will find when practicing this is that the rear will slide out and very quickly come back into line before the apex - we resolve this with the rear brake.Get used to this breaking away feeling first using only the gearbox and clutch.

The reason the rear brake is used is to maintain a constant but slow rotation of the rear wheel. What you'll have noticed is that if you just use your clutch, the engine revs quickly increase as friction between tyre and tarmac pull the wheel round quicker - that is why you experience the rear coming into line quite quickly. The rear brake is used to add more friction so that engine revs don't rise and the rear wheel maintains its slower rotation. That is all the rear brake is used for! So it is done gently!

So lets add this to the above process:

1. Set yourself up on bike, begin breaking with the front and add a little rear brake

2. Drop down through the gears

3. Lean in

4. Dump clutch

You will notice whether you're getting the rear brake pressure right by how well the bike maintains its slide to the apex. When you practice this you will also know why we only add the rear brake after you've learnt how to initiate the slide.

What you may also notice when doing these exercises is that the rear wheel may begin hop - this is rectified by using the clutch and just pulling it in very slightly.

As you practice the above you will also notice that the degree to which you're sliding varies and that you can vary it yourself, depending on the corner - this is done using the clutch and very slight adjustments on the clutch lever as your backing it in to the corner - this bit is the bit that really requires the practice and skill and marks the difference between those who can slide and those who can sliiiiiiide.!

You may notice that none of this means you have to be absolutely on it or riding aggressively to slide - it's actually a very gentle technique when you get to know it.

That should be enough to get you started........

As for the drifting bit, I think the first thing you need to do is get used to doing it on your sm bike with slicks on loose gravel or something similar and as above doing this between a couple of cones so that you're going round a couple of really tight turns getting on the power so that the bike spins round the corner, if necessary with your inside foot on the ground to give support. The really important thing to remember is that as the bike begins to slide you lean your body to the inside of the bike and also ever so slightly bringing the bike more upright (look at dirttrackers). Once you've got comfortable with this on the loose stuff, then get onto tarmac and begin with learning how to do donuts, first with the bike really leaning over stood still and with one leg on the ground. Then get used to breaking traction and pivoting yourself on you leg round in circles as the rear burns away (it is also quite good to start this on loose stuff to get used to the feel).

One point about drifting and that is really difficult for some riders to get their heads around is that you do not, whatever you do, chop the throttle! If a drift starts going too far you regulate it by holding the throttle and/or by pushing the bike more upright.

As an interesting point Valentino Rossi practices his drifting in a quarry with a bike with an MX front tyre and road rear tyre!

This should also be enough to get you started.

That is the best write up on the subject I have read to Date!!!!

Awesome job and thank you for the eloquent description :thumbsup::ride::applause:

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"borrowed"??????

What you talking about Willis

Well Jackson.. it's like this:

Originally Posted by Mitchie67

Shamelessly stoled from the Husaberg site

Dat's whut I be talkin' about.. It was borrowed.. seems like someone forgot to ask though.. but that isn't the issue here.. now iz it..?

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That is a good explanation – I had never read it before

My words were my words – short and to the point.

I just think that most racers learning try to back it in the first day end up crashing or almost crashing. There is a lot to learn before you start to apply more advanced techniques. I see guys all the time that try to back it in but can’t get the bike to slide all the way into the corner and make the transition from sliding to turning. And in fact – they are slower. What I have seen helping Gary Trachy out with his schools is that guys will slide the rear out but they end up straightening the bike back up and almost standing the bike back up before they enter the corner.

And yes there is a time to back it in and there is a time not to.

It’s just scary to watch a beg or novice rider start slamming down gears and pounding rear brakes and dumping clutches when they can hardly ride a motorcycle.

My two cents

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Jeez I was only trying to answer the guys question on how its done. Read this item before on a site that I use, thought it was a very good explanation and though it worth sharing 'stoled ok stolen' my mistake I am sorry :ride: I also agree with Scott that you don't want to go straight at it, practice is the key here and as he mentioned prefrably at a track. I am just starting to be able to slide and use it rather than doing the slide pick it up turn in which I was doing a year ago. I went back to racing my SM in a straight line and as you get faster it gets easier.......... :thumbsup:

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