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Ktm144sx Just Passing It On

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Gene,

Sorry, but I spoke too soon. Under the current 2006 rulebook, the KTM 144 is not legal. Not because of a different stroke (the 2007 KTM 144 is a completely separate model from the KTM 125, they still offer a 125), but rather the rule that states that 144cc can only be achieved by boring a homologated 125. This issue will come up at AMA Congress and there is no guarantee that the bike will be legal in Amateur competition. Contrary to what KTM has said, they have not contacted the AMA about the KTM 144 being legal.

Ryan Holliday

AMA Sports Motocross Manager

American Motorcyclist Association

(614) 856-1900 ext. 1264

www.amadirectlink.com

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I second that!

You 2 have a better plan? If so lets here it. Nah, you probably dont even belong to a club, just show up to race and whine. Tdub

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You 2 have a better plan? If so lets here it. Nah, you probably dont even belong to a club, just show up to race and whine. Tdub

Umm, how about let the 144 race in a class with a 144cc limit? :thumbsup: What's so hard about that? Seems pretty logical to me, but I don't work at the AMA.

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Sure I have a reply. Like Ryan stated, the new KTM does not fall within the EXISTING rule for the class. Maybe KTM should have checked before they offered the model. The rule is pretty clear. Just read them...they are online even! Tdub

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Hi. You seem to have some insight. How did the AMA rules come about to allow the more powerful four strokes bikes to essentially discontinue the two strokes? Thanks for your insight.

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Hi. You seem to have some insight. How did the AMA rules come about to allow the more powerful four strokes bikes to essentially discontinue the two strokes? Thanks for your insight.

Yeah, they let the four strokes right in, yet they do nothing to level the playing field once they start dominating. Seems to me like they have an agenda.

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Yeh I suppose agenda is the right word. It is a certainty that the 2 strokes are on borrowed time. Rumor has it that even the manufacturers are planning limited run of the 2 strokes in the very near future, eventually phasing them out completely. I believe the AMA is taking the same steps and gradually leaning towards the 4 strokes. The riders also are dictating what is happening by the choice of their ride. JMO Tdub

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OK, to be more specific, it is obvious that the much larger displacement four strokes work better than the small displacement two strokes. Why were the rules not changed to reflect that difference? The riders only follow the rules and since the AMA makes the rules, no one can compete on an underpowered machine against an overpowered machine. What would be the reason why the AMA does not make a rule to level the playing field since they made it uneven in the first place??

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Yeh I suppose agenda is the right word. It is a certainty that the 2 strokes are on borrowed time. Rumor has it that even the manufacturers are planning limited run of the 2 strokes in the very near future, eventually phasing them out completely. I believe the AMA is taking the same steps and gradually leaning towards the 4 strokes. The riders also are dictating what is happening by the choice of their ride. JMO Tdub

Why not make a 144 that's bored and stroked legal for all "Lites" class races and see who steps up to the plate. Honda and Suzuki may still ditch, but KTM and Yamaha could make some really wicked bikes. Seems to me like KTM tried to do this, but the AMA shot them down. It's just another example of legislation killing the two stroke, and the AMA being the rulemaker. I just hope the sport can survive a decline once there are nothing but four strokes and the cost of racing even in the mini classes goes through the roof. We're slowly inching our way there IMO with a sanctioning body that doesn't value a level playing field of two strokes AND four strokes. just my $.02

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I am no fan of the AMA as they do alot of boneheaded stuff but you guys are aiming at the wrong people here. The AMA had an existing 144 rule in place and KTM decided to release a bike that did not fit that rule. THAT was the boneheaded move! Oh, and I am assuming that the 144 exsists as it is still not on their website.

If you want to place blame on someone for the dissappearance of the 2-stroke blame the EPA here in the US. They are the ones that said it was going to be illegal to sell 2-strokes in this country in the future. It was the AMA that talked them into extending the time the 2-stroke has left.

So, with the knowledge the AMA my very well have had an 'agenda' regarding 4-strokes. Perhaps they felt the need to encourage the OEMs to develop them before the 2-stroke was gone for good. If they did nothing the we may have seen the end of the 2-stroke without a suitable 4-stroke replacement. We would all be stuck with underperforming, underdeveloped machines that no one was happy with. Would you then blame the AMA for sticking their heads in the sand and for not doing something about the new 4-strokes? Probably.

In truth, 250F anf 450F probalby is to big to allow the 2-strokes to be competative. But you have to consider if the EPA is to be believed, you won't be able to buy a 2-stroke in the future and if that is true, it really does not matter how the 4s and 2s compare because you won't be able to buy a 2 in this country.

And, you can't suddenly lower the displacement of the exsisting classes because then you screw everyone out there racing a 250F or 450F. And you also screw the OEMs because now they have reinvest in totally new bikes to meet the new rules. If the AMA lower the CC levels, would you then say the AMA had an 'agenda' to force us all to buy a new bike. Probably.

The AMA is far from perfect and frequently do some seriously stupid stuff in the pro racing. They also do very little to help us down on our level. But to place all the blame on them for the loss of your 2-stroke it just dumb. Quit whinning and accept that fact that sometimes you don't get what you want and that things do change.

PS, I ride a KX125 and sold my YZ426F

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(two stroke) is a lot different than (two stroke for closed course competition only)

At some point, a cc size was deterrmined for the four strokes. How long have their been 125cc two strokes and 250cc two strokes???

AMA = German Nazi half helmets, no helmets and four strokes. Yippee.

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Yeah, and the plan was to not allow 2 stroke for closed course. They have not been allowed on the roads for quite some time now.

The length of time we have had 2 strokes really has nothing to do with any of this.

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So maybe the AMA should match bikes that are comparable in Power(HP). You mean like a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke that say makes 48-50 HP? Or a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke that make say low to mid 30ish HP? That sounds fair to me...Oh wait, they already did that! Tdub

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SWEET!!! The AMA 2007 MX contests will be held in the DYNO ROOM!! AWESOME!!

No wait, they will be held on a track like the past umpteen years.

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SWEET!!! The AMA 2007 MX contests will be held in the DYNO ROOM!! AWESOME!!

No wait, they will be held on a track like the past umpteen years.

no one can compete on an underpowered machine against an overpowered machine.

Just replying to your statements. I believe it is not so much the power output as it is how the power is put down to the ground. If you came up with a 2 stroke limit that equalled the torque output of the competing 4 stroke, the Hp difference would be huge. Simply said the 4 strokes are simply far easier to ride fast than the 2 strokes. JMO Tdub

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That is true. I beleive my 04 KX 125 made more peak HP than the 250Fs of that year. If not, it was close. It is easy to make more HP on a 125 but that does not make it easy to ride.

Think of a graph of the HP. I think what would determine equal useable power would be if the graphs of two engines had the same area under the curve for the same RPM range. As it stands, the 250F wins this comparison. The peak HP may not be drastically different than that of a 125 but since it make more HP high and low it has a great amount of area under the curve.

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The 144 does exist...as stated in Transworld Motocross. However, I think KTM would have researched enough to realize that rule. They must have a plan or have been in talks because in my opinion it seems a little weird they would invest the money without taking the time to look into the AMA's dumbass rulebook. The two-stroke is awesome technology...its too bad im starting to see the days that local privateers line up with $$$ killing four strokes. I dont know what to do the day these 2 strokes are gone :thumbsup::ride:

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