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I am ready to give up

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I am ready to give up. I can't get this 82 xr200r to run. I have good compression. My valve timing is correct. My carb has been rebuilt. I have agood spark. Yet it won't start. I even got my clymers manual. I started off with the diagnosis section and I had everything it said I should have for this bike to run. Although it doesn't. So I decided to just start checking anything I could check. Now to check the timing you have to have the bike running. So I decided hey there are beautiful marks on these pasts lets line then up. Nothing. No fire. I move it one way, nothing no fire, move it the pother way nothing no fire. Now if I smell teh exhaust pipe I can smell gas. So I am definately getting gas. Probably flooded it from kicking it so much. Let it sit for a few hours went back to it and started the proccess all over again and nothing. I have no idea why this bike won't start. All I know is I am glad I didn't have to pay to get the bike, although I do have a lot of money into it for it not to run. I have no idea what to try now. I am getting fuel, air and spark. Vavles are opening and closing at teh correct times and are adjusted correctly. The timin gis another story as the clymers manual says to adjust it while the bike is running. Geee thanx that helps a lot to us guys with out a running bike. How about giving us a starting point. Maybee that's what the beautiful marks are for. But in my case nothing seems to work. I have no idea what to try or where to turn at this point in time.

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Have you taken apart the top end yet? We once had a bike that wouldn't fire just simply because of excess carbon build up inside the cylinder. I would make sure that everything within the carburetor is in spec, clean, and operating properly on more time too. Also make sure that you don't have an air leak or something, since you just installed that isolator.

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Have you tried a shot of starting fluid? I know it seems simple, but I have a chineese quad that won't start without it when it's cold out. If everything you say is correct, it should fire at least once with a shot of either.

Also, how old is the gas? How about a new spark plug... Again, maybe simple, but I've seen cars run like crap with brand new Champion plugs only to run much beter with the old ones put back in. You may have spark, but it might be weak.

Check to make sure you have a good spark when the piston is at TDC (top dead center, compressin stroke). If it is, it should fire at least once.

Finally, when trying to start it, you can put it in 4th or 5th gear and try to push start it. You'll get more turns than kick starting it and it's pretty easy to turn over in a high gear. Heck, you could even try pulling it behind a lawn mower or something.

Man, if you can't get anything from it after this, something is really goofy.

Good luck,

Todd

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I would check the CDI. I once had the same problem with a car I used to own. It had spark, fuel and air, but it wouldn't start. A guy I know told me to replace the ignition unit and after it was replaced the engine fired right up. Turned out that the spark was not hot enough to ignite the fuel.

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Well Ihave a nice fat blue sparl. But maybee it is not enough. I actually have tried starting fluid and got nothing but the smell of starting fluid in the exhaust. Th egas was barndnew, just purchased yesterday. The gas I took out had only been in the tank for a few weeks and was new then. I did shine a flashlight down into the cilynder and the piston wsa nice and shinny not all carboned up. I put the motor at top dead center and blew compressed air in at 120psi. No leaks that way. I put new rubber grommets on the air intake. If I could get the motor started I could spray around it to make sure it isn't leaking. but I can't get it started. I did make sure everything was tight though. I had the carb apart a few times making sure everything was in order there. I even rechecked it today to make sure everythign including the float level was correct. Maybee something does need replaced to make the spark stronger. I just seem to be getting such a nice blue spark though. The spark plug is brand new. I don't have any other parts to try other than just throwing money at it. I don't really want to do that. I also can't try push starting it, I don't have the brakes or a clutch cable yet. The rear brake needs new shoes, havn't tried hooking up the front brakes yet. I have been trying to avoid spending money on it til it has started. I will try a new plug and also see if the manual tels me hwo to check the CDI other than just make sure you have spark. All I rememebr reading on checkign it today everything said just make sure you have spark.

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Well I looked in my shop manual and it says to check if you have a weak or no spark for the following. 1-Faulty spark plug 2-Fouled spark plug 3-Faulty CDI unit 4-Broken or shorted high tension cord 5-Faulty AC generator 6-Broken or shorted ignition coil 7-Faulty pulse generator 8-Poorly connected, broken or shorted wires and 9-Improper pulse generator coil air gap.

Interesting enough the very last thing to check on this trouble shooting page is to Start with choke applied.

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I always have the choke on while trying to start it. I havn't read through the manual yet to see if it says how to check all of that other than placing the spark plug on the head and looking for a spark. Which is what I read mostly while I was reading through for things to check.

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Have you tried it without the choke? Maybe the carb's too rich and when you choke it, it gets flooded?

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Since your just now getting a manual ......... in case you werent aware .......... the choke is ON in the UP position. Most every engine ive had before its always been the opposite so thought i post it.

Its always the simple things that get ya.

Sorry your having trouble getting it started.

Do yourself a favour and read the manual cover to cover before going on.

Timing with a timing light is used to dial it in perfectly. You can time it at TDC on compression stroke with the cam gear at 12 o'clock, Flywheel mark at F or T (cant remember which off hand). And theres also timing marks on the pulse generator to align. You may be getting spark ..... but at the wrong time.

1st thing i would do tho if you havent already is pull the flywheel off and make sure the woodruff key & keyway is OK to make sure the flywheel hasnt spun a bit giving you a false reading on the timing marks. While its off give the inside of the flywheel a good cleaning and make sure theres no rust ot build up. I would also pull the pulse generator and clean it all up good and use some light emory cloth on any electrical contact areas.

Did you ever put a compression tester on the bike??

When i put mine back together i started it without the gas tank, air box or exhaust on. You can rig up a plastic bottle with a clear hose to your carb. makes it alot easier to work on without everything in the way.

Mine also started easier when kicking it without touching the throttle when cold. It seemed to flood real easy.

HTH .......... I know how aggravating it can be.

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The choke circuit on those were poor. Is the plug wet? Put the bike in 3rd gear and rock it back and forth several times. Then kick with full-choke while grabbing the front brake lever to keep the throttle closed. If it won't at least pop within 3 kicks then stop and pull your plug and see if it's wet.

If it is - then I'd measure the resistance coming off your stator. If it isn't - then I'd prime the cylinder with a small amount of gas and repeat the procedure.

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One more thing. You mentioned that the compression was 120psi. My manual shows that the standard compression is 199psi. It looks like yours might be a bit low. But even with low compression it should still fire up.

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by 120 psi I mean from my air compressor that I was pumping the air in with. I was checking for air to either pass by one of the valves or the rings. All I got was a piston trying to move down. WHich tells me my rings are good and so are my valves. I think I am having a spark issue. I get good spark when the plug is out but it is obviously not firing in the cylinder or the bike would start. So I am going to start checking all of that tomorrow. I have to trace each wire and make sure I am not grounding out anywhere and also check each electrical component. I'll post back up with my results.

Edit: I just realized I had more posts I had not read on page 1. I will try each of those things out and see what I can come up with.

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ok... here is a bone head check... I once rebuilt a xr200 and the electronics on the end of the cam fell apart... the little rotor thing(advancer) was 180 off... I had spark and gas but would not startk... turned it around and it started first kick... had me worried and a sore leg from kicking it 1000 times...

Good Luck

p.s. It is the number 3 on the microfiche:

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/200_0130/cdi_pulser/cdi_pulser.cfm?man=ho&groupid=14510&parent=14500

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Y aknow I ws just reading about that in my manual. I am goign to check it out and see if it is on correctly. I could be 180 out there as you said.

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Just make sure that the little pin (part #16, below) does not fall out of the cam, and drop down into the lower end of your engine. You WILL find yourself up the proverbial creek without the paddle... :thumbsup:

campic.jpg

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I am definately not firing 180* off. I didn't think I was as I just had all of this apart a 100 times in teh last week, but to check is never a bad thing. I am firing on teh compression stroke right at the top. I did however have a bad air gap the book said it should be .3-.5mm and I didn't even have .1 so I set it to .3. I did not have time to try to start it as I should be getting ready for work now. I also want to check all the elctrical stuff out per the book before I try to kick it over any more. As soon as all of that checks out I will try to kick it again. I may also get a clutch cable in the mean time. I don't have one yet. I did hook up my front brake cable finally today. The good news is my front brakes seem to work great. i will replace them when I do the rear brakes anyway and they already need done. I just have this problem spending money on something other that what it need sto make it run when I this close. I will get back on it tomorrow morning.

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I had a similar situation many years ago with a brand new RM100 Suzuki (2 stroke - simpler engine so take it for what it's worth). Good spark, fuel and air but it wouldn't run. The plug would come out wet but still giving a spark. The shop told me to check the wiring for a short. I guess I looked half-heartedly but thought there's no way I'd be getting good spark at the plug if there was a short. So we took the bike back to the shop...and they showed me where the kill button wire had been slightly pinched by a tank mounting bolt. I never fully understood the whole dealio or why I still got a spark but now I really check the wiring. Have you checked the wiring harness really good and tried it with the kill button disconnected? Maybe you have a related situation. Hopefully there's still some simple (inexpensive) solution to your problem.

Stators can go bad and still spark but with insufficient strength, too, I think. The service manual should have specs for measuring output.

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you still haven't said wether you put a compression guage on it or not.

the 120 psi from a hose is not a compression test.

I've got an '82 twin cylinder yamah 600 in my garage given to me because they couldn't get it to run. I fixed the spark problem on the dead cylinder for about $100 off ebay. I never checked the compression as it felt OK via the thumb over the plug hole. got the bike running on 1 cylinder. Worked and worked and worked..... on carb and timing and cams no luck. I finally found a compression guage to fit and gues what ....60 psi of compression. took the head off again and ring gap was in spec, valves were holding pressure, cam timing on the money. I'm still guessing . My best guess is the rings, after so many years of sitting (10-12) or they got real hot or, I dunno, lost their tension. Whatever it is , I have no compression and they don't make those rings anymore, so the bike is a POS cluttering my garage.

Check your compression with a guage.

Compression + spark + fuel + proper timing + opened exhaust = running.

ps, I also squirted some starter fluid down the bad cylinder and didn't get anything out of it except a very loud bang a few seconds later in the exhaust pipe.

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ok to answer jimmy first. I now plan to go over th ewiring tomorrow in great detail. I did have the wiring completely off the bike while I painted the frame. I should go ove rit again. I also plan to test teh stator per the manuals instruction tomorrow.

OldnBold I know putting 120psi of air into the cylinder from my air compressor is not a compression test. It is merely a leak test, and not to be confused with a leak down test. I was merely making sure I did not have air getting past the rings or the valves. I still have yet to buy a compression guage. (I spent the money I was goign to spend on the guage on the manual instead) The guage will have to wait a bit. My neighbor won't be back from vacation for 3 more weeks so I still can't borrow his. He took it with him. I do plan on buying one as I use them quite regualry (sp?) I do belive though that since the 120 psi from my air compressor was forcing the piston down and I could not hold the kick starter to keep it from moving I should have decent compression. I should atleast have enough to get the bike to have a firing sound. I also do not have a gasy smell in my oil. As much as I have kicked this thing over I think if it had bad compression I would get some gas into the oil. I know non of my methods so far are fool proof. However even with the starting fluid I get no sond of any kind of ignition taking place at all. I think if the plug was firing with enough spark it would atleast give me a pop. It doesn't though. I know my posts get long but while I am writing my responses back I am also thinking out loud at possible solutions. All of your responses keeps breathing new life into me to continue this project. If you read my thread titles 82 xr200r questiosn and my introduction you will see pics of what I started off with and the path I followed to get this far. It is easy to forget how far I have come when I spend a few weeks just trying to get this thing to start. I have to keep remembring I have come a logn ways and really gotten a lot accomplished so far and not give up.

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